Goose Island Kettle Sour

30 posts / 0 new
Last post
Boollish
Boollish's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 month 5 days ago
Alchemist, member since
Goose Island Kettle Sour

Aight guys, let's talk about the elephant in the room.

How the hell are we gonna get this kettle sour done in 3 weeks?

I have to potential solutions that just might work, but generally I think would require some cooperation between brewers:

1) Be dumb.

Instead of doing the kettle sour, use a blend of lactic, citric, and acetic acid added to a simple wheat kolsch until you get the sourness you want without having to bother with the lacto pitch. This will create a more one-dimensional sourness withou the other flavors pooped out by the lacto. On the other hand, it is fast and cheap, and it removes the necessity of dealing with a lacto pitch.

The downside is that we need someone to have a batch of light wheatbeer done right the fuck now so we can test the acid doses. Maybe we could convince struck to run off 1 gallon of patersbier to get the volumetrics right, scale it up to a 5 gallon batch, then just make a kolsch out of the recipe kit like normal.

2) Temporarily repurpose the bar fridge into a hot box. 

A heating element can be had for like, $20, and a temp controller for about $50. If the club is so willing, we could use this kit as the empetus for creating a long-term hotbox set up. We could plug the holes in the bar fridge temporarily with a big towek, stick a heating element and a temp controller inside the box, set it to 110, and let it go for 3 days. 

This is most "in the spirit" of the kit. However, I'm a dummy and have never built a setup like this before. Maybe Pete can volunteer to take point on the build?

Anyone want to discuss? Or does everyone think it'll be funny seeing me epically failboat and submit to Goose a 12 oz bottle of butyric acid with an active clostridium infection in it. Is it felony assault if the judges contract botulism as a result of my beer?

Kyle N
Kyle N's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 week 6 days ago
Alchemist, member since
What do you have to brew? A

What do you have to brew? A kettle sour is not a sour mash. 

Kettle sours take like 24 hours to reach a desirable level. Then pasteurize or boil, pitch your Sacch and ferment like normal. The guys at Omega did a grain-to-glass kettle sour in something like 5 days. 

Day 1: Mash your grist, run off into kettle, heat to 170. Chill to 100, adjust pH to ~4.5-4.6 with 88% lactic or phosphoric, trasnfer to stainless, CO2 purged keg, pitch your lacto (use OYL-605 if you can). Purge again. 

Day 2-3 (18-48 hours): Check pH. Should be < 4.0. Trasnfer back to kettle, bring back to 170 or boil if you want. Add whatever hops you want at this point. Chill as normal. Add Sacch. 

Days 3-???: Ferment like normal. Keg/bottle like normal. 

 

Boollish
Boollish's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 month 5 days ago
Alchemist, member since
Kyle, you are right, I missed

Kyle, you are right, I missed the terminology. We are supposed to be making a kettle sour. That is, run off 100 degree wort, pitch bugs, let it sour, then boil to sterilize and pitch kolsch yeast. I have edited OP.

But since you seem to have done this before, perhaps you could help me (us) out.

The instructions say we should keep propogating the lacto pitch up to the proper amount. How necessary is this in your experience.

Also, the instructions also say we should keep it at 100-110 degrees in order to let the lacto be happy. Having made sauerkraut personally, I know this to be not necessary to the souring process per se, but for beer making I have never done this (plus, we're on a clock). If we stuck the keg at room temp and properly heat sterilized it beforehand, would that take care of the risk of infection by other toxins?

I would really love it if this project could be accomplished by just leaving the keg somewhere without a heating element because I'm a lazy bastard with no money. 

Maybe I could wrap the corny keg in a sleeping bag to retain heat?

josh s
josh s's picture
Offline
Last seen: 4 years 1 week ago
Brewer (Intro), member since
james,

james,

Lets do this.  If you know where to pick up the supplies.  Ill attempt to put them in tomorrow morning.  Even if we cant get reimburst to make it a club controler and heater, we can all split it together.  Im going to come to the club early hit me up tonight and lets get this done 773-915-3850.

Boollish
Boollish's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 month 5 days ago
Alchemist, member since
Josh,

Josh,

I feel like we should ask Wes or Chuck about this before we get started, but we could use one of these:

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Cadet-30-in-500-Watt-120-Volt-Electric-Basebo...

Plugged into one of these:

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Ductstat-Plug-In-Thermostat-Temperature-Sensi...

The temp controller lets you go up to about 100. So we could let it go to 100, then make sure we cool to 100 degrees, I'm going to wrap my keg in painter's tarp, then put that in a sleeping bag if it fits into the fridge under the bar. We can figure out some creative way to plug the whole at the top.

THEORETICALLY this temp controller can handle 5 amps, and our heating element seems to draw about 4.2 under max load (from my experience as a journeyman electrician, I know how to divide watts by volts to get amps), so we shouldn't blow it out and burn down the brewhouse.

The dimensions of the heating element is 3x7x30 inches, so should be simple enough to mount in the fridge.

Anyone want to chime in? Please?

josh s
josh s's picture
Offline
Last seen: 4 years 1 week ago
Brewer (Intro), member since
James I actually confirmed we

James I actually confirmed we should have a heater and control at the brew house

Kyle N
Kyle N's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 week 6 days ago
Alchemist, member since
Just curiosity, but is this a

Just curiosity, but is this a kit that came with lacto? If it did, which strain? If it didn't, just use the Omega (without any hops) and you won't need to worry too much about keeping the temp up. It will work through most anything so long as there's no IBUs to compete. It's incredible. 

Heck, if you do want the Omega, I'll go halfsies with someone and grow it up for them and take a portion for myself 'cause I need some more. 

weswsimpson
weswsimpson's picture
Offline
Last seen: 7 years 5 months ago
i have a temperature

i have a temperature controller that will work, and i will bring it to the club on saturday, i'll be there at noon.

"willhi wh1436" if you want to google it.

I also have prop-ed up my lacto, to 1/2 gallon so it should be ready to go

weswsimpson
weswsimpson's picture
Offline
Last seen: 7 years 5 months ago
The electric baseboard heater

The electric baseboard heater can be made to work as long as it's less than 8amps (depending on size and availibility).  I have a digital controller that will work, so all we need is the heater and a length of cord with a plug, 6-8' should work--an extention cord can be used--to plug it into the controller.

Also, if someone has one of those liquid filled portable radiator style room heaters that would work too.

Boollish
Boollish's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 month 5 days ago
Alchemist, member since
Thanks to Wes and Josh, hot

Thanks to Wes and Josh, hot box is now functional behind the bar!

Rich
Rich's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 week 1 day ago
Alchemist, member since
Sweet, nice work guys. Is

Sweet, nice work guys. Is there room for Pete and I come in and play?

Pete
Pete's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 year 4 months ago
Alchemist, member since
James, Wes, Josh

James, Wes, Josh

Thanks for setting this up.  Rich and I will be brewing this tomorrow.  How did eveyone's mash go?

 

"Give a man a beer, and he will waste an hour. Teach a man to brew, and he will waste a lifetime!" Bill Owen

Stewpid
Stewpid's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 year 6 months ago
Alchemist, member since
Pete... I suggest using some

Pete... I suggest using some rice hulls in your mash. 

JamesLewis
JamesLewis's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 year 2 months ago
The keg in the hot box is

The keg in the hot box is leaking out the spigot line, probably lost a gallon so far. I just disconnected the spigot, but the keg will likely keep pressurizing.Ill be here unit just after midnight if ou want me to do anything else.

616 240 2651

JamesLewis
JamesLewis's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 year 2 months ago
Its the one with founders

Its the one with founders sticker

josh s
josh s's picture
Offline
Last seen: 4 years 1 week ago
Brewer (Intro), member since
Damn that one is mine if

Damn that one is mine if someone is there can you put itinto a bucket inside the hotbox with the relief valve open ill be there later to clean it up

ChuckMac
ChuckMac's picture
Offline
Last seen: 3 months 2 weeks ago
Alchemist, member since
There is a hot box behind the

There is a hot box behind the bar?

 

ChuckMac
ChuckMac's picture
Offline
Last seen: 3 months 2 weeks ago
Alchemist, member since
There is a hot box behind the

There is a hot box behind the bar?

 

weswsimpson
weswsimpson's picture
Offline
Last seen: 7 years 5 months ago
yeah, we set it up in the new

yeah, we set it up in the new undercounter fridge with a heater and timer.  all set and working if you need to use if for a lacto beer

Rich
Rich's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 week 1 day ago
Alchemist, member since
This beer is a buzz kill.

This beer is a buzz kill.

Stewpid
Stewpid's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 year 6 months ago
Alchemist, member since
 I just did my 15 minute boil

 I just did my 15 minute boil. If you have this in a keg in the hotbox be really careful when you open the keg I lost about a gallon and a half because of all the pressure. Be ready to put it right into the keg it's almost like a bomb.   

Boollish
Boollish's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 month 5 days ago
Alchemist, member since
I was under the impression

I was under the impression that lacto didn't produce any CO2. Was this a blend of bugs that we were given?

Stewpid
Stewpid's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 year 6 months ago
Alchemist, member since
I want there but I can

I want there but I can guarantee they build up pressure! It was insane how active it was in my leg and even when I finally got all I could into the kettle. I would actually try this again but would do it in a carboy so I could see the action. 

Kyle N
Kyle N's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 week 6 days ago
Alchemist, member since
Yeah, shouldn't see much/any

Yeah, shouldn't see much/any activity from lacto alone - it shouldn't produce a krausen or drop gravity by much more than 10%. 

Boollish
Boollish's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 month 5 days ago
Alchemist, member since
Kyle, I know we are

Kyle, I know we are sterilizing the wort before we pitch our brewer's yeast in this case, but if I believe that I have a carboy that has gotten infected with sour bugs, would it be safe to ferment the berliner weisse in that under the assumption that the acidity is so low that the existing bugs aren't going to grow in it?

chirocky
chirocky's picture
Offline
Last seen: 5 years 5 months ago
Apprentice, member since
Thanks for all the info you

Thanks for all the info you guys pulled together on this. I'll be brewing this tonight. I've done some weird beers before, but this is the most complicated and screwy flavor... I would never have thought to put this combination together. Snaps to anyone who gets a score above a 3 on this brew!

Boollish
Boollish's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 month 5 days ago
Alchemist, member since
Nancy, I agree on the

Nancy, I agree on the slightly screwy flavor combo. Would have liked to just make a normal ass berliner weisse. Personally, seems that this recipe would call for some milled coriander in the sterlization boil or maybe some lemon. Coffee? Not sure how I feel about that.

Maybe I will split into two batches. The first for the goose event, the second one I'll boil with salt, coriander, and dill to make some gosebier.

Rich
Rich's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 week 1 day ago
Alchemist, member since
I just checked mine which is

I just checked mine which is in glass and it is churning and bubbling away pretty actively, but no krausen at all.

weswsimpson
weswsimpson's picture
Offline
Last seen: 7 years 5 months ago
If everyone is finished with

If everyone is finished with the Hot Box, last one out, please unplug the heater (timer can left on or unplugged as well)

mike_struck
Offline
Last seen: 3 months 1 day ago
Alchemist, member since
Will do Wes. I think that I

Will do Wes. I think that I'll be the last one out