I would just like to talk about the financial and legal decisions that went into making the "Friends of CHAOS" group.
We have big events every three months. They have been very popular in the past and we would like to continue that tradition. It fosters a strong community. These events were open to everyone and people paid at the door. We budget about $20 a person for these events.
Earlier this summer the ILCC told us that we were no longer allowed to have these parties unless they we closed, members only. No money can change hands at the door. This causes a problem because it removed our members (and guests) ability to pay for what they attend. Guests are an easy solution, we can have a computer and people can sign up for a trial membership if they plan on coming. However an existing member cannot sign up again as a trial member, and the club can't cover their cost of entry at the current membership rate. So we essential have to charge for parties in the membership.
Our budgeting expects that a member will make 2 of 4 parties, so that is the first $40 of the "Friends of CHAOS" membership rate. The second $40 is essentially the same as the yearly membership rate. Thts how we got to $77/yr. So this is a really great deal for those who are heavily involved in the CHAOS community and that dont brew, if one goes to all four parties they are essentially not paying a yearly membership fee.
There is a proposal out there to allow "Friends of CHAOS' to pay a fee to reserve a brew time. It seems like a good fit for those who may only want to use the brewhouse 2-3 times a year. As we move forward we certainly will figure out a way for the "friends" group to get into the brewhouse if they need to. But for now we just want to see how this structure works out. Hopefully we have a ton of interest and we can afford to lower the rates!
There were more than a couple reasons for the new structure but the impetus behind the new tiers was basically two-fold: (1) allow for more 24/7 access and more independent brewing; (2) create a structure that would allow us to have a monthly income, instead of staggered yearly one, to start budgeting for a bigger space (which will not be happening tomorrow but it's not too far off on the horizon).
We will definitely discuss it. While these are very likely the tiers which go into effect on/around October 7th, nothing says we can't/won't add a tier sometime down the road if membership interest warrants it.
Thanks, again, for your feedback, Joe. Hope to see you at the monthly meeting on the 7th.
Thanks for the input Joe, it's something we'll discuss online & also at our next meeting to see where the membership falls on this one.
One of the things that is mentioned in the spreadsheet, but not highlighted for emphasis & may have not been noticed by many, is that the new membership structure also include the 4 quarterly parties in the membership cost. In the past those four events were ticketed at $20/25 depending on if you purchased them online or at the door. This is were the the "friend" tier comes in along with the workshops & discounts at local shops. Understandably, not everyone can make every party, which is why we only included a portion & not the entire amount in the new membership costs. We are also very close to outgrowing out current space & need to see if it's feasible to continue looking for new real estate, which is one of the main things the new tiers are targeted for (along with more 24 hr access for all).
Please keep the feedback cominng everyone. Any information is good information for us as we try to navigate these uncharted territories & stay true to our original mission without negatively affecting who we are as a club.
in filling out the Application for Brewer level membership, does brewing 2 different beers on one day count toward the three times brewing at the brewhouse?
Hey, I will be signing up as a "non-brewing member" and will take part in bulk buys when possible...I assume there may be other brewers out there that just would rather hang out with other beer geeks and participate in club activities not directly related to brewing onsite...I assume someone that is new to brewing is not going to buy a 50# sack of grain anyway....
Jim Chochola said:
Lucas, to counter your idea about letting website members participate in group buy: "Web Member" and "Friend" are listed as "non-brewing". Before making an effort to specifically state that these two tiers get access to grain buys, we should make an effort to clarify that they can walk through the door with another brewer if they want to, say, (a) help out with someone else's brew; or (b) just want to see what the hell brewing is all about. Informing a "non-brewing" member that they can see what this brewing is all about comes before letting them group buy? (just my $0.02, too; you know I like to debate).
There's just so many things going on now, I didn't want to spin my wheels wasting time if no one's going to find it of value. I agree it sat stagnant for a while. I started the discussion thread on "Membership Cards" on March 22, 2012; I was finally able to order them on September 12th, 2012. That's a long time for a project to sit stagnant....
I guarantee we'll increase the number of places we can get discounts; it may be only a few at first on October 7th when we go live but by the end of the year, I plan to have 50+ merchants on board.
1. Fully endorse making all the cuts that lucas suggested and
2. Also still think it's a great idea to hit up people for discounts. I think there's been a lack of enthusiasm around it simply since the membership card thing sat stagnant for so long. I'm sure people are game. Don't feel discouraged.
i agree the discounts are not why i would sign up for the club.....but it helps....especially at local home brew shops..and maybe northern brewer online...amazing malt choices
Thanks for the feedback on the perks, Jeff and Adam. We will definitely hit BC and B&G. I hit a few today in Old Town to get my feet wet in schmoozing. I plan on hitting more this weekend in Logan Square; maybe Lakeview as well. Evan's going to help me out to do North Center.
I'm hoping that we'll have at least the LHBSs by the time the membership cards come; and I'm not going to stop trying to get new discounts and keep relations up with existing discounts thereafter.
I also think the discount card is a great idea, especially if Brew & Grow and Brew Camp are on board. It seems like I spend half my paycheck at B&G, so any discount I could get there would be awesome.
Discounts on beer/food/whatever else are just gravy.
Hi Jim, I, for what it's worth, think the discount card is a great idea...
Jim Chochola said:
Sorry, my whole point in bringing up the discounts (in addition to the parties) is that if people eat/drink out on even a somewhat regular basis, they're going to save more than $7/month. Add the "parties" and "events" to that, and it's well worth $7/month or $77/year. Other homebrew clubs don't have what we have and charge $40/year. We rock - and we're going to fucking rock after October 7th - so, I feel we can charge more at the Friend level since they get more than other clubs.
Also, keep in mind that we've applied for 501c3 tax-exempt status. As soon as we hear back from the IRS, any money anyone pays (for memberships, donation, &c.) is tax-deductible; any donations of equipment are also tax-deductible. I will let everyone know when I hear something.
No person is going to fit a tier perfectly; no tier is written so that it fits every member exactly. So, that's why most of the things you mention aren't on there. As you can see from the graphic, "Friend" has access to the group buy (I criticised it before but, now that you bring it up, it should stay a "Yes" for "Group buy" for Friend). I've already mentioned to some that it should be made clear that Friend can be in the brew house for things other than "events" while someone's brewing (just like now, we've had some members bring friends/family to keep them company when they brew).
Jim, as I emailed Dan earlier today. I am a new member - I donated $40 and have been to a few workshops. I live in a house and I brew in my backyard, kitchen and garage. I do like the camaraderie of sharing brewing tips with others, going to workshops and sharing the final product for critique. I also like the brewoff contests. I do not need to brew in the brewhouse, but I do value the input of the group on my beers and my technique so I can get better at my brewing and grow. I would like to get in on group buys for grains which is a win-win for all (we get to a pallet quicker). My house is open for anyone that would like to meet up and brew here or if you need a 3rd guy on a brewing session I could come there. What group do I fit in?
Sorry, my whole point in bringing up the discounts (in addition to the parties) is that if people eat/drink out on even a somewhat regular basis, they're going to save more than $7/month. Add the "parties" and "events" to that, and it's well worth $7/month or $77/year. Other homebrew clubs don't have what we have and charge $40/year. We rock - and we're going to fucking rock after October 7th - so, I feel we can charge more at the Friend level since they get more than other clubs.
When people don't mention anything about the membership card discounts around town as part of the benefit of Friend (on the other hand, people have mentioned "events" and "parties" more than a few times), it makes me think that people either don't like perks themselves and/or they don't expect other members to find them of much value.
I've asked before and I'll ask again: do people think it's worth it for me (and Evan, and whoever else) to hit the pavement and get the discounts, free pints, &c. or not? Or, should we not waste our time?
Andrew Tomka said:
@ Dan I agree. Most people that are going to be joining at that level are just going to be in it for the parties. The only bad thing is that if we have 4 parties in 2013 and those members come to all of them we will be out of the 40 dollars that we would have brought in under the previous structure.
I do like that we are drawing a line between a trial membership and the next levels up. As long as everyone understands the value then I think it should work well.
This chart is great but it may be too detailed for some people to take all the time to read. On the new site, the graphic/chart above will be secondary to the blurbs below (these are just a rough draft; nothing final):
Do you mostly want to discuss beer and brewing online or attend an occasional Hoppy Hour or workshop? No further action is needed: you're already a web-member and we will not charge you for use of our site. Welcome!
If you're looking for a beer website, to socialize with fellow beer aficionados, some classes/workshops, as well as to score some discounts on beer around Chicago with our membership card, perhaps Friend of CHAOS is your membership tier.
If you are looking to start brewing or are a casual brewer and want occasional access to brew space and brewing equipment (in addition to everything offered above), perhaps Apprentice level is for you.
If you're just looking to check things out (try your hand at brewing, come to a seasonal event, &c.) but are afraid of commitment, we have an Apprentice Trial Membership available for 30 days (after which you can sign up for one of our other membership tiers or say goodbye for good).
Are you addicted to brewing but don't have the space in your condo/apartment for a ton of beer equipment? Brewer level is for you. Get everything listed above plus 24/7 access to the brew house and more fermentors in the ferm room. (Plus at the Brewer level you have the opportunity to earn "Alchemist" status: that means storage space at the brew house for your grain or equipment and your own locker for the smaller stuff you'd like to keep there).
@ Dan I agree. Most people that are going to be joining at that level are just going to be in it for the parties. The only bad thing is that if we have 4 parties in 2013 and those members come to all of them we will be out of the 40 dollars that we would have brought in under the previous structure.
I do like that we are drawing a line between a trial membership and the next levels up. As long as everyone understands the value then I think it should work well.
hey everyone we are looking for any feedback you may have before these go into effect. Im in the process of emailing anybody that has paid into the old membership system. You should hear from me this week...pls email me back with what membership choice you think you are going to sign up for. ....
my .02...i think the friend of chaos membership should be $40 a year if you pay up front....if not $7 a month. I think that is more inline with other brew club pricing. Everything else looks good ...im looking forward to see more brewers at the brew-house
Lucas, to counter your idea about letting website members participate in group buy: "Web Member" and "Friend" are listed as "non-brewing". Before making an effort to specifically state that these two tiers get access to grain buys, we should make an effort to clarify that they can walk through the door with another brewer if they want to, say, (a) help out with someone else's brew; or (b) just want to see what the hell brewing is all about. Informing a "non-brewing" member that they can see what this brewing is all about comes before letting them group buy? (just my $0.02, too; you know I like to debate).
To get the discussion going, here's my $0.02 on a couple ways we could make the chart a little simpler and make it easier to format on the new site (mostly removing as many columns as possible and keeping the label column on the right short and one-lined):
Rename the "CHAOS Membership Card (discounts...)" down to "Discounts at local establishments"
Combine the "Reserve Brew Time" and the "User our Water and Gas" into one line item of "Brew at the brewhouse" or something similar
Rename "Ferment batches in the Fermentation Room / Lager Chamber" to "Ferment at the brewhouse"
Under the website area, get rid of all of the other items and just say "Full Access" under everything
Rename "Attend Compliementary CHAOS Member Parties..." to something like "Attend private parties and official events"
Get rid of the access brew house horizontal as we already talk about all of these elsewhere.
Also, any reason we wouldn't want to let someone on our website participate in a group buy? Could be a great way to get more people involved in the club.
I would just like to talk about the financial and legal decisions that went into making the "Friends of CHAOS" group.
We have big events every three months. They have been very popular in the past and we would like to continue that tradition. It fosters a strong community. These events were open to everyone and people paid at the door. We budget about $20 a person for these events.
Earlier this summer the ILCC told us that we were no longer allowed to have these parties unless they we closed, members only. No money can change hands at the door. This causes a problem because it removed our members (and guests) ability to pay for what they attend. Guests are an easy solution, we can have a computer and people can sign up for a trial membership if they plan on coming. However an existing member cannot sign up again as a trial member, and the club can't cover their cost of entry at the current membership rate. So we essential have to charge for parties in the membership.
Our budgeting expects that a member will make 2 of 4 parties, so that is the first $40 of the "Friends of CHAOS" membership rate. The second $40 is essentially the same as the yearly membership rate. Thts how we got to $77/yr. So this is a really great deal for those who are heavily involved in the CHAOS community and that dont brew, if one goes to all four parties they are essentially not paying a yearly membership fee.
There is a proposal out there to allow "Friends of CHAOS' to pay a fee to reserve a brew time. It seems like a good fit for those who may only want to use the brewhouse 2-3 times a year. As we move forward we certainly will figure out a way for the "friends" group to get into the brewhouse if they need to. But for now we just want to see how this structure works out. Hopefully we have a ton of interest and we can afford to lower the rates!
Yes, I second Evan's explanation.
There were more than a couple reasons for the new structure but the impetus behind the new tiers was basically two-fold: (1) allow for more 24/7 access and more independent brewing; (2) create a structure that would allow us to have a monthly income, instead of staggered yearly one, to start budgeting for a bigger space (which will not be happening tomorrow but it's not too far off on the horizon).
We will definitely discuss it. While these are very likely the tiers which go into effect on/around October 7th, nothing says we can't/won't add a tier sometime down the road if membership interest warrants it.
Thanks, again, for your feedback, Joe. Hope to see you at the monthly meeting on the 7th.
Thanks for the input Joe, it's something we'll discuss online & also at our next meeting to see where the membership falls on this one.
One of the things that is mentioned in the spreadsheet, but not highlighted for emphasis & may have not been noticed by many, is that the new membership structure also include the 4 quarterly parties in the membership cost. In the past those four events were ticketed at $20/25 depending on if you purchased them online or at the door. This is were the the "friend" tier comes in along with the workshops & discounts at local shops. Understandably, not everyone can make every party, which is why we only included a portion & not the entire amount in the new membership costs. We are also very close to outgrowing out current space & need to see if it's feasible to continue looking for new real estate, which is one of the main things the new tiers are targeted for (along with more 24 hr access for all).
Please keep the feedback cominng everyone. Any information is good information for us as we try to navigate these uncharted territories & stay true to our original mission without negatively affecting who we are as a club.
Unfortunately it does not, but we may discuss that volunteering to work on the brew house (which you have done) does count
in filling out the Application for Brewer level membership, does brewing 2 different beers on one day count toward the three times brewing at the brewhouse?
The emperor is not as forgiving as i am
Hey, I will be signing up as a "non-brewing member" and will take part in bulk buys when possible...I assume there may be other brewers out there that just would rather hang out with other beer geeks and participate in club activities not directly related to brewing onsite...I assume someone that is new to brewing is not going to buy a 50# sack of grain anyway....
Jim Chochola said:
I think the discount idea is great. Definitely get me brewing more.
The emperor is not as forgiving as i am
Thanks, Daniel. I appreciate the encouragement!
There's just so many things going on now, I didn't want to spin my wheels wasting time if no one's going to find it of value. I agree it sat stagnant for a while. I started the discussion thread on "Membership Cards" on March 22, 2012; I was finally able to order them on September 12th, 2012. That's a long time for a project to sit stagnant....
I guarantee we'll increase the number of places we can get discounts; it may be only a few at first on October 7th when we go live but by the end of the year, I plan to have 50+ merchants on board.
I
1. Fully endorse making all the cuts that lucas suggested and
2. Also still think it's a great idea to hit up people for discounts. I think there's been a lack of enthusiasm around it simply since the membership card thing sat stagnant for so long. I'm sure people are game. Don't feel discouraged.
i agree the discounts are not why i would sign up for the club.....but it helps....especially at local home brew shops..and maybe northern brewer online...amazing malt choices
Thanks for the feedback on the perks, Jeff and Adam. We will definitely hit BC and B&G. I hit a few today in Old Town to get my feet wet in schmoozing. I plan on hitting more this weekend in Logan Square; maybe Lakeview as well. Evan's going to help me out to do North Center.
I'm hoping that we'll have at least the LHBSs by the time the membership cards come; and I'm not going to stop trying to get new discounts and keep relations up with existing discounts thereafter.
Jim,
I also think the discount card is a great idea, especially if Brew & Grow and Brew Camp are on board. It seems like I spend half my paycheck at B&G, so any discount I could get there would be awesome.
Discounts on beer/food/whatever else are just gravy.
-Adam
Hi Jim, I, for what it's worth, think the discount card is a great idea...
Jim Chochola said:
Also, keep in mind that we've applied for 501c3 tax-exempt status. As soon as we hear back from the IRS, any money anyone pays (for memberships, donation, &c.) is tax-deductible; any donations of equipment are also tax-deductible. I will let everyone know when I hear something.
No person is going to fit a tier perfectly; no tier is written so that it fits every member exactly. So, that's why most of the things you mention aren't on there. As you can see from the graphic, "Friend" has access to the group buy (I criticised it before but, now that you bring it up, it should stay a "Yes" for "Group buy" for Friend). I've already mentioned to some that it should be made clear that Friend can be in the brew house for things other than "events" while someone's brewing (just like now, we've had some members bring friends/family to keep them company when they brew).
You fit "Friend".
Jim, as I emailed Dan earlier today. I am a new member - I donated $40 and have been to a few workshops. I live in a house and I brew in my backyard, kitchen and garage. I do like the camaraderie of sharing brewing tips with others, going to workshops and sharing the final product for critique. I also like the brewoff contests. I do not need to brew in the brewhouse, but I do value the input of the group on my beers and my technique so I can get better at my brewing and grow. I would like to get in on group buys for grains which is a win-win for all (we get to a pallet quicker). My house is open for anyone that would like to meet up and brew here or if you need a 3rd guy on a brewing session I could come there. What group do I fit in?
--james
Sorry, my whole point in bringing up the discounts (in addition to the parties) is that if people eat/drink out on even a somewhat regular basis, they're going to save more than $7/month. Add the "parties" and "events" to that, and it's well worth $7/month or $77/year. Other homebrew clubs don't have what we have and charge $40/year. We rock - and we're going to fucking rock after October 7th - so, I feel we can charge more at the Friend level since they get more than other clubs.
When people don't mention anything about the membership card discounts around town as part of the benefit of Friend (on the other hand, people have mentioned "events" and "parties" more than a few times), it makes me think that people either don't like perks themselves and/or they don't expect other members to find them of much value.
I've asked before and I'll ask again: do people think it's worth it for me (and Evan, and whoever else) to hit the pavement and get the discounts, free pints, &c. or not? Or, should we not waste our time?
Andrew Tomka said:
i will say i love the blurbs
This chart is great but it may be too detailed for some people to take all the time to read. On the new site, the graphic/chart above will be secondary to the blurbs below (these are just a rough draft; nothing final):
@ Dan I agree. Most people that are going to be joining at that level are just going to be in it for the parties. The only bad thing is that if we have 4 parties in 2013 and those members come to all of them we will be out of the 40 dollars that we would have brought in under the previous structure.
I do like that we are drawing a line between a trial membership and the next levels up. As long as everyone understands the value then I think it should work well.
Andrew James Tomka
515-988-3260
andy.tomka@gmail.com
hey everyone we are looking for any feedback you may have before these go into effect. Im in the process of emailing anybody that has paid into the old membership system. You should hear from me this week...pls email me back with what membership choice you think you are going to sign up for. ....
my .02...i think the friend of chaos membership should be $40 a year if you pay up front....if not $7 a month. I think that is more inline with other brew club pricing. Everything else looks good ...im looking forward to see more brewers at the brew-house
Lucas, to counter your idea about letting website members participate in group buy: "Web Member" and "Friend" are listed as "non-brewing". Before making an effort to specifically state that these two tiers get access to grain buys, we should make an effort to clarify that they can walk through the door with another brewer if they want to, say, (a) help out with someone else's brew; or (b) just want to see what the hell brewing is all about. Informing a "non-brewing" member that they can see what this brewing is all about comes before letting them group buy? (just my $0.02, too; you know I like to debate).
To get the discussion going, here's my $0.02 on a couple ways we could make the chart a little simpler and make it easier to format on the new site (mostly removing as many columns as possible and keeping the label column on the right short and one-lined):
Rename the "CHAOS Membership Card (discounts...)" down to "Discounts at local establishments"
Also, any reason we wouldn't want to let someone on our website participate in a group buy? Could be a great way to get more people involved in the club.
Oh... my... god. Why haven't we done this? http://thechive.com/2013/09/17/guys-rig-up-buddies-plumbing-with-beer-wh...