All,
EDIT 2: 3 p.m. on the 18th is the go-time, so make sure to have your cleaned, sanitized, and marked container available at the brewhouse before then!
***It's my understanding that Derek moved away, so he won't be able to be involved with this. Derek, if I'm wrong and you (or someone you know) is available to claim your share of the beer, please reply to this thread. Otherwise, Derek's share will go to everyone else who brewed for the barrel.***
At Tuesday's BJCP Tasting event, Kyle, David, Steven, and I all tasted the imperial red ale in the barrel owned by Derek Bondy and agreed that it is ready to come out of the barrel. It's got some nice barrel character, but it isn't overwhelmed by it at this point. It's quite tasty, IMO. With that said, we need to set a date in the not-too-distant future to give everybody back their beer. I suggest November 17 or 18, so we can get this out of the barrel before the holidays are upon us. Please reply to this thread if either of those dates work for you. We probably don't need everyone there at once, particularly if you can drop off a clean and sanitized container into which we can pump your beer.
Speaking of containers, it will be easiest if most everyone can bring a corny to collect their 4-5 gallons, instead of having a bunch of people trying to bottle ~50 gallons of beer at once. However, if a couple of people wish to bottle their share at the brewhouse, I'm sure we can accommodate space for at least 2. In your reply to this thread, indicate if you think you'll want to bottle at the brewhouse.
If you have any questions, or if I've forgotten something obvious, please reply to this thread as well.
-Adam
EDIT - The 18th currently works for the following:
- Me (5 Gallons)
- Kyle (5 gallons)
- Dave (5 gallons in absentia)
- Thomas (5 gallons + Derek's 10)
- Kevin (5 gallons in absentia)
- Stephen (5 gallons, bottling)
- Daniel (5 gallons in absentia)
- Bill (5 gallons TBD)
Haven't heard back from:
- Collin
FOBAB is the 17th but perhaps the 18th would work.
I am out of town starting the 15th...
I can have a keg cleaned, sanitized, and ready to go if you stick with this weekend. Also, we are emptying the Koval barrel on the 14th.
Derek called me and asked that I claim his portion of the barrel. The 18th works well for me.
So far the 18th works for:
Haven't heard back from:
Bill is no longer an active member of CHAOS. Does anyone know whether Collin is still active? After another few days, I'll send private messages to everyone who has not yet replied to this thread.
-Adam
I will be out of town in missouri that weekend. But I will be more than happy to bring a carboy or corny keg before than so it can be filled without me being there.
Kevin Saberniak
we havent heard from collin in a while, but he used to come around all the time. should def reach out to him.
can bills portion go in the club keezer?
...igz...
I've updated the first post to reflect who November 18th works for. I'm going to go ahead and schedule it on the brewhouse calendar.
On another note, does anybody know what the proper procedure is after emptying the barrel? Do we just fill it with barrel solution and put the bung back in?
-Adam
How large is the barel and is there a plan to reuse it? I would like to get it into downstairs the barrel rack when it is empty if it is going to be reused. A shelf would eed to be built for it before filling. If it is not going to be reused than it becomes firewood for Stout night. Another option that has worked for some people is to chop it up into cubes, soak them in bourbon (or not) and use them in fermentors.
James,
The Bondy barrel is already downstairs in the rack. Facing the downstairs barrels, it's on the top right. I definitely think the barrel should be reused. Do you know what is involved with maintaining the barrel once it's empty?
Also, this probably belongs in its own thread, but we should see if iggi's barrel can be resuscitated. If not, we should try to think of a way to get it out of the barrel rack so that its spot can be occupied by a barrel that we're actually using.
-Adam
Talk to kyle. He know what the solution is. We used his barrel for the BCS because he kept it in good condition.
bill's portion should not go in the keezer. I'm going to contact him to let him know about the beer. If he can't swing by that day, I'll put his portion in one of my fermenters.
Daniel,
That's fine with me. What's your availability for the 18th?
-Adam
I'm not available for the 18th. I already asked off the 17th for FOBAB, and I never get more than one weekend day off. :(
if my barrel will hold water, by all means, use it. for anything. even a sour.
...igz...
Dave accidentally put this in the wrong thread, in regards to maintaining the barrel:
Dave said...
Kyle and I cleaned all the barrels when we first got them from GI.
There is an instruction packet in the office. That document shows the
proper chemicals to use and at what ratio.
the process is two fold, one for cleaning, one for storing. I don't
believe cleaning will be needed, if the holding solution is put in
directly after the barrel has been emptied.
It should be noted that any liquid put into the barrel will leech out
oak and barrel flavors...this includes holding solution and cleaner.
The best option, and what we are doing with the koval barrel, is to
have another project batch brewed and ready to go. When you dump the
barrel, you fill with new. No need for mixing solution and the barrel
resumes its life.
If the date you mentioned is still your bbl emptying date, there isn't
enough time to coordinate a refill. Batches should be majority
fermented before adding to the barrel. Too much yeast will create
autolyzed flavors with the long aging duration needed for barreling.
If you do push the date and coordinate another brew, keep in mind that
these are Heaven Hill barrels and are 53 gallons. That means you need
11 people doing 5 gallon batches, or some variation of that.
...igz...
Dave brings up some very good points. If there's some momentum toward brewing another beer to fill this barrel, I doubt another month of barrel age is going to hurt this beer too badly. On the other hand, there have been a couple of barrel projects that have fallen through due to lack of interest, and I don't think we want to keep this beer in the barrel indefinitely.
I'm not trying to rush and get this beer out of the barrel, but I think it's ready, and barring some real momentum toward brewing another barrel-aged group beer, I don't believe it makes sense to sit around and wait while the beer potentially gets too much barrel character.
However, this is not my beer; it belongs to everybody who brewed for it. We can postpone emptying it if that's what people want.
-Adam
i would take it out now and fill it with solution. It's SO2, citric acid, and sodium metabisulfite but it has to soak in each of the first two separately for a half-day or so and then filled with the metabisulfite (fate?). It takes a couple of days.
I will be bottling my 5 gallons, let me know what date and time we settle on.
~steVen
312-504-7108
Daniel,
Let me know whether you'll be ok leaving a couple of vessels at the brewhouse for your beer and Bill's.
Steven,
Are you ok with the 18th if we do it that day? Pending yours and Daniel's approval we have almost everyone accounted for (save Collin) who brewed for this barrel.
-Adam
yep, Sunday the 18th works.
OK. It looks like we'll have me, Kyle, Thomas, and Steven at the brewhouse to help empty/rinse/refill the barrel. Everyone else, please leave a clean and sanitized container at the brewhouse, marked with your name. It would probably also help if you labeled your keg/container to indicate that it is for the Bondy Imperial Red. I will try to have at least one extra clean/sanitary keg in case somebody forgets to leave theirs, but I can't make any promises.
Also, does anyone know how to reach out to Collin? I PM'd him, but I haven't heard back.
-Adam
I will be bottling my beer. My assumption is the yeast is not active enough in barrel aged beers and we'll need to add yeast along with priming sugar. This article seems to confirm my suspicion.
Anyone have info countering this?
If not, does anyone want to go in on creating a yeast starter?
If your bottling, then yes - you probably want to pitch new yeast. The
yeast that are in the beer have been there for a long time in less
than optimal conditions. If you are adding additional fermentables
(priming sugar) then it wouldn't hurt to pitch fresh yeast and ensure
that your new healthy yeast are the most likely to take over and
produce some bubbles for you.
You shouldn't have to make a starter, both dry and liquid yeast will
be a good enough pitch able quantity to support a healthy
refermentation to eat through the priming sugar and carbonate your
bottles.
I have never bottled a barrel-aged beer, but I imagine a single pack of s04 or s05 would easily provide enough yeast to carbonate 5 gallons. Probably more than enough.
Found this good read from Northern Brewer that talks about yeast amounts needed for bottle conditioning.
http://www.northernbrewer.com/documentation/AdvancedBottleConditioning.pdf
Off topic, what kind of barrel was used for this beer? Was it one of the goose island barrels? Bourbon? I'm working on making a label for this beer.
Kevin Saberniak
Ya this one was a previously emptied Goose Island Bourbon County Barrel. I want to say they originally held Heaven Hill bourbon but I could be wrong.
What time on Sunday is everyone thinking?
I put it down for 3 p.m., but we can do it any time in the early afternoon. 1 or 2 even. I'll be there from 10-5 or so brewing, so I'd like to be done and filling the barrel with solution by 5 or so.
Barring a last minute change, 3 p.m. on the 18th is the go-time. If you're not going to be there, make sure to have your cleaned, sanitized, and labeled container available at the brewhouse before then!
Also, does anyone have an extra corny to put Collin's beer into?
-Adam
Hi, I start work at 3 so I won't be there. I'll have a carboy to put it in
Wanted to write a follow up to the emptying. Adam, Thomas and myself emptied the barrel today. Everything went smoothly until about the last ten gallons where we had some minor troubles getting the last of the beer out. We managed to get everyone around 4.5 gallons of finished beer. We also have a full keg (would have been Collins) that is currently carbing in the keezer and will be for the brewhouse to enjoy.
Everyone who was absent: Your beer is currently in the ferm room and labeled accordingly.
Bills portion is in a glass fermentor.
Daniel's portion is in one of Adam's kegs.
Dave's portion is in one of his buckets.
Kevin's portion is in his keg.
After emptying the barrel Adam and myself rinsed/cleaned the barrel and filled it with fresh water. We are missing one of the two chemicals needed to make the storage solution. Evan volunteered to pick it up this week and when he does I will add the chemicals to the barrel to ensure it can be re-used. Which brings me to my last point... does anyone have an idea for the next barrel project and if so please come forward and help with the next group brew. Thanks.
Thanks to Thomas and Kyle for their huge help in emptying the barrel. I think everyone will be pleased with the finished beer.
-Adam
Im about to bottle this beer. Im interested to know the process of carbonating this beer. How much corn suger to use? How much and what kind of yeast to add?
Kevin Saberniak
hey Kevin,
I don't think I primed my beer enough, bottled it the night we pulled it out and it's flat as of yesterday.
I used 3/4 cup of corn sugar and added a half pack of S-05 dry yeast. I think I didn't allow the yeast to disolve enough to thoroughly mix into the beer.
Next time I do this I'm going to create a yeast starter with a full pack and go with more corn sugar, maybe a full cup.
The beer is awesome, even really good flat, but I'm considering opening my bottles and doctoring them.
Check out the PDF Kyle linked to above.
Thanks Steve, yeah, I think I'll try making a yeast starter. Whats everyone elses experience with carbonating this beer? I'd hate to ruin such a good beer.
Kevin Saberniak
IJ'd imagine that 1/3 of a pack of s-05 would be more than enough yeast. You'd just want to make sure that it was well-enough mixed into your bottling solution to get some yeast in each bottle. I would hazard a guess that these will take a while to carb up regardless. It's a pretty inhospitable place for yeast: > 10% abv and very little/no free oxygen. Stephen, I would give them at least a month to see if there's any gas there before I opened them up and added more yeast/sugar.
My plan is to force carb it and then bottle from the keg. I'll probably leave a bit in the keg to drink from there as well.
-Adam
In this situation, you might have better luck with a liquid yeast over
a dry yeast. You will probably get better and more even dispersal of
yeast into each bottle.
Need to listen to the lessons of DEVO more often, my paranoid delusions of flat beer are unfounded, glorious bubbles abound (got to get unbottled up!)
Good to hear, Steven! And in plenty of time for the holidays, no less.
How much corn sugar did everyone use?
Kevin Saberniak