I can Beersmith up another recipe no problemo today, but I need to clear some things up
1. Beersmith doesn't have Best Red X, but i read the fact sheet and it says it's a 2-row barley malted differently, in my previous recipe attempt I used a 2-row and just changed the SRM to match Red X, is this acceptable?
2. Are we gonna decoct or make specialty malts, or do both? In Beersmith how would I handle that since the facts are unknown, just use, for instance a 2-row crystal?
3. My previous recipe attempt for a 5ish ABV beer at 72 % efficiency only needed 9 lbs of malt for a five gallon batch, should I just scale up the batch size to keep those numbers?
4. Sounds like James settled the yeast, but we need a hop consensus. I just used Saaz in my first attempt because it just seemed right and for the Alt style the hops shouldn't be too upfront, I'm open to anything that might give us an edge.
5. So far this is what I'm understanding about the mission statement for this beer, we are shooting for a barrel aged altbier, that is either decocted or has some specially roasted malt component to achieve a maltiness and color that other entries will lack thereby elevating our beer to success, with maybe a unique hop addition....still a little murky....
1. I would use munich 20l and chage the SRM on that. This malt probably has a munich like character. I dont think the decoction will add much. Cooking malts will. Im leaning towards the toasted malt over the crystal. So 1lb of something like aromatic and .5lb of pale chocolate.
2. For the specailty malts just use standard equvalents
3. Shoot for 70% eff and an OG of about 1.045, 90min boil. Then scale for larger volume to use 11.5 lb of RedX
4. Just shoot for 30ibs from a 60 min addition and add .25 oz at flame out
The first one is my beersmith file for those that are so inclined, the second is the instructions PDF, I'm sick and a bit drugged up so please excuse and/or correct any mistakes...I'll explain for those that cant access the files at the moment.
This version of the recipe uses all 13 lbs. of malt, 11.5 Best Red X, 1 lb. of Toasted best red X, and .5 lbs roasted Best Red X and results in 6.5 gallon batch here's the stats:
I set up a single infusion mash at a low temp because Ray Daniels says to do that in the designing great beers book and if alt is our style, more fermentables is our goal so I set it up at 148/149 to let the beta amylase do its thing.
OG 1.048
SRM 22.9
IBU 35.1
ABV 5.2
In the recipe, per James advice (thanks bro) I used Briess Munich 20l with an altered SRM to stand in for our Best Red X, Aromatic to sub for the toasted malt, and CHocolate to sub for roasted.
I factored on using Saphir hops, I think James mentioned an IBU of 31 plus the final addition, a 3 oz. addition at 60 min gives us 32.9.
That sounds like it satisfies everyones ideas currently. Also my equipment setup and boil off losses etc. is set to a 10 gallon pot, 1.2 gal/hr boiloff, 10 gallon cooler tun, .5 gal MLT deadspace, and a .3 gal loss to the counterflow.
I am thinking the toasted option is better than the caramel. It will compliment the barrel better and I am hoping to get a rich malt sweetness from the base malt as it should be similar to Munich.
1/2 lb "pale chocolate" - roast your base malt for 50 minutes at 400 degrees F
1lb "aromatic" - roast your base malt for 30 minutes at 350 degrees F
I can bring a 5 liter flask and stir plate for you to make a big starter for this thing if we go lager. Does anyone know if the lager fridge is hooked up to a temp controller? I can bring mine as an override too. I think we go lager on this beer.
Joe,
For the recipe use pale chocolate not chocolate. Also, put in .5 oz of hops at 0min, not 1 oz at 5min. we dont want the hop flavor competing here.
Chuck, I have two six gallon plastic carboys and on seven gallon bucket at the new brewhouse. Feel free to use any of those if needed. (My name is on all of them, so they shouldn't be too hard to find.)
At this point I'd say we brewed an awesome Marzen. It has nice deep, clear amber color and very good malty taste. Our O.G. was 1060 and F.G. is 1010 which has us coming in at 6.5% ABV...
When we submit I suggest we do not list a base style and just describe the intention. ie The flavors we are getting right now. You give a judge something to compare against and the will, so better to tell them what they will be tasting and why.
As James mentioned, let's not give the judges a style to measure it against (i.e. Marzen), but I like Joe's last suggestion, so how about Red Baron Rye Barrel Lager?
I agree with Adam and James on this one...everyone has different thresholds of bourbon and barrel aging that they look for when they read it on the label. Let the judges go in blind and be pleasently suprised with what Chuck brewed up!
I can Beersmith up another recipe no problemo today, but I need to clear some things up
1. Beersmith doesn't have Best Red X, but i read the fact sheet and it says it's a 2-row barley malted differently, in my previous recipe attempt I used a 2-row and just changed the SRM to match Red X, is this acceptable?
2. Are we gonna decoct or make specialty malts, or do both? In Beersmith how would I handle that since the facts are unknown, just use, for instance a 2-row crystal?
3. My previous recipe attempt for a 5ish ABV beer at 72 % efficiency only needed 9 lbs of malt for a five gallon batch, should I just scale up the batch size to keep those numbers?
4. Sounds like James settled the yeast, but we need a hop consensus. I just used Saaz in my first attempt because it just seemed right and for the Alt style the hops shouldn't be too upfront, I'm open to anything that might give us an edge.
5. So far this is what I'm understanding about the mission statement for this beer, we are shooting for a barrel aged altbier, that is either decocted or has some specially roasted malt component to achieve a maltiness and color that other entries will lack thereby elevating our beer to success, with maybe a unique hop addition....still a little murky....
1. I would use munich 20l and chage the SRM on that. This malt probably has a munich like character. I dont think the decoction will add much. Cooking malts will. Im leaning towards the toasted malt over the crystal. So 1lb of something like aromatic and .5lb of pale chocolate.
2. For the specailty malts just use standard equvalents
3. Shoot for 70% eff and an OG of about 1.045, 90min boil. Then scale for larger volume to use 11.5 lb of RedX
4. Just shoot for 30ibs from a 60 min addition and add .25 oz at flame out
5. Yes
I like the Saphir Idea.
James, so am I toasting a pound and dark roasting a half pound?
Best Red X Alt 1.1.bsmx
Best Red X Alt 1.1.pdf
The first one is my beersmith file for those that are so inclined, the second is the instructions PDF, I'm sick and a bit drugged up so please excuse and/or correct any mistakes...I'll explain for those that cant access the files at the moment.
This version of the recipe uses all 13 lbs. of malt, 11.5 Best Red X, 1 lb. of Toasted best red X, and .5 lbs roasted Best Red X and results in 6.5 gallon batch here's the stats:
I set up a single infusion mash at a low temp because Ray Daniels says to do that in the designing great beers book and if alt is our style, more fermentables is our goal so I set it up at 148/149 to let the beta amylase do its thing.
OG 1.048
SRM 22.9
IBU 35.1
ABV 5.2
In the recipe, per James advice (thanks bro) I used Briess Munich 20l with an altered SRM to stand in for our Best Red X, Aromatic to sub for the toasted malt, and CHocolate to sub for roasted.
I factored on using Saphir hops, I think James mentioned an IBU of 31 plus the final addition, a 3 oz. addition at 60 min gives us 32.9.
That sounds like it satisfies everyones ideas currently. Also my equipment setup and boil off losses etc. is set to a 10 gallon pot, 1.2 gal/hr boiloff, 10 gallon cooler tun, .5 gal MLT deadspace, and a .3 gal loss to the counterflow.
http://therulingglass.blogspot.com/2013/02/a-drinkers-guide-to-hops-saphir.html
For those, like me, new to Saphir
Hi Chuck,
I am thinking the toasted option is better than the caramel. It will compliment the barrel better and I am hoping to get a rich malt sweetness from the base malt as it should be similar to Munich.
1/2 lb "pale chocolate" - roast your base malt for 50 minutes at 400 degrees F
1lb "aromatic" - roast your base malt for 30 minutes at 350 degrees F
I can bring a 5 liter flask and stir plate for you to make a big starter for this thing if we go lager. Does anyone know if the lager fridge is hooked up to a temp controller? I can bring mine as an override too. I think we go lager on this beer.
Joe,
For the recipe use pale chocolate not chocolate. Also, put in .5 oz of hops at 0min, not 1 oz at 5min. we dont want the hop flavor competing here.
Brew day is going to be this Sunday at 10 am.
My primary fermentators are all tied up so does someone have 6 gallon we can borrow for this brew?
either my 5 or 6 is available. can check when home. my betterboys are available as well
...igz...
Chuck, I have two six gallon plastic carboys and on seven gallon bucket at the new brewhouse. Feel free to use any of those if needed. (My name is on all of them, so they shouldn't be too hard to find.)
All this stuff except the baking soda was in the office drawers. Nit sure if you know where it got moved to. But if you can find it.....
Water modifications:
In Mash:
CaS04 (gypsum) = 1g
MgS04 (Epsome Salt)=2g
CaCl (Calicum Chloride) = 3g
NaC03 (Baking Soda) = 2g
In Boil: (In this case it is the same as mash)
CaS04 (gypsum) = 1g
MgS04 (Epsome Salt)=2g
CaCl (Calicum Chloride) = 3g
NaC03 (Baking Soda) = 2g
How did the brew go Chuck?
Starting Gravity came in at 10.60! 12 points higher than beersmith predicted. ken tried the wort and says it has a nice toasted smokeyness to it...
Cool. How many gallons did you end up with?
Just under 6...
The beer has been racked into Adams barrel and is lagering in the fridge...
badass
At this point I'd say we brewed an awesome Marzen. It has nice deep, clear amber color and very good malty taste. Our O.G. was 1060 and F.G. is 1010 which has us coming in at 6.5% ABV...
When we submit I suggest we do not list a base style and just describe the intention. ie The flavors we are getting right now. You give a judge something to compare against and the will, so better to tell them what they will be tasting and why.
I tried our beer Sunday. We are already starting to get a bit of whiskey and oak after only 1 week in the barrel.
Bottling this bad boy tomorrow! After its bottled it's time to enjoy this beer!
We need to name this beer!
Bourbon Barrel aged Marzin!
Hit it!
Oaken Eagle
Oaken Eagle Majestic Marzen
Red Baron Bourbon Barrel Marzen
As James mentioned, let's not give the judges a style to measure it against (i.e. Marzen), but I like Joe's last suggestion, so how about Red Baron Rye Barrel Lager?
I agree with Adam and James on this one...everyone has different thresholds of bourbon and barrel aging that they look for when they read it on the label. Let the judges go in blind and be pleasently suprised with what Chuck brewed up!
Sadly we got put in a style and a sub style on the label...
The Eagle has Landed on Marzen?
Bourbon Oaked Ubber Alles?
Amber Alert?
Bourbonic Plague?
Attack of the Marzen
The emperor is not as forgiving as i am
Put it in specialty 23A. Is there anyone in the beer judge class that can taste this thing and write out a description? It should be something like:
A dry malty lager, highlting a rich and toasty malt. A light oak aging to accentuate the dry toasty malt character.
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