I would like to judge the club's interest in redoing our counterflow chiller. It works fine now, but I feel it has it's shortcomings. I've noticed that it can get very dirty, has issues chilling beer in the summer and is not the most user friendly, leading to people running the pump dry.
We need:
- chiller needs to bring a minimum of 10 gallons from boiling to 68 degrees in a reasonable time frame, no matter the groundwater temperature.
- Needs to be more portable
- Easily cleaned
- Durable
I spoke with the owner of Jaded Brewing, a local company about some of their products. They seem to be just what we would need: http://jadedbrewing.com/collections/counterflow-chillers/products/jaded-...
I would like to salvage what we can off the old, and build a new one addressing the issues above - mainly cleanliness and mobility.
Thoughts?
I'm guessing the prechiller in the bucket would still be upstream? Looks interesting and I've heard good things about Jaded.
The cleanliness of any counterflow chiller would be an issue, with shared equipment like ours, because you can't visually inspect it. If someone doesn't clean a brew kettle sufficiently, we'll see it before we use it. Have we talked about having two chilling options - a counterflow chiller and an immersion chiller?
The chiller that Matt linked to looks awesome!
www.singingboysbrewing.com
I've requested an immersion chiller before (both for novices and for those who simply don't want to use the CFC); I know Steven Lane mentioned wanting an immersion chiller at the brew house. You make three, Jim. The immersion chiller movement is gaining momentum! :-)
The brew house is decidedly geared toward all grain and intermediate-to-advanced brewers. A simple immersion chiller would go a long way in being more welcoming/less daunting to brand new brewers.
How are you going to get the water to all the stations? Seems like the chiller we have is perfectly portable, but constrained by the location of the fresh water and drain feeds. I think if we could solve that, we might suddenly like the configuration we have a lot more.
Hey guys I'm new to the club and stout night was my first time ever being at the brew house. But after seeing your equipment I thought I'd put it out there that I work for a large plumbing supply company and can get discounts on items like copper coils,stainless fittings and pipe, etc.
I agree that the water hookup affects the portability currently. Maybe having instructions for how to switch the intake solves that; I've never even attempted to disconnect it. Though it is on wheels, the water lines to the sink make it tricky to get to bay 3 (are we calling it brew bay red now?)
What I like about the above linked chiller is that a) you can move it to and keep it at a bay without any hassle and b) you can clean/unclog without much effort. And you can actually see if it's clean. And there are no kinks in the wort line that aren't removable. Damn, that is a sexy piece of equipment.
Rich makes a good point about getting cold water to the bays though. Maybe the solution is just an extra long hose. Could be a pain getting it to 4, but not nearly as problematic as wheeling the cart.
Steve, any thoughts on the cost of the materials to make something like th JaDeD Cyclone?
Separately, I gave away my immersion chiller after I joined CHAOS, but seubsequently convinced the guy I gave it to to join as well! I'll see if he'd be willing to give it to the club to have an immersion option.
I'm sure it has been mentioned before, but I would think the easiest thing to do would be to run cold water lines to each of the brew bays. Currently there is hot water ran to each of them, so we would just have to run the cold lines there as well. In the previous Chiller Project post that is exactly what was discussed. Obviously, the brew bays have moved a bit, but here is the image that Matt originally posted:
Without question, the greatest invention in the history of mankind is beer. Oh, I grant you the wheel was also a fine invention, but the wheel does not go nearly as well with pizza.
- Dave Berry
Kyle - Jason from Jaded that I talked to advised against having a prechiller upstream. I understand it limits our cooling power to the 3/8" ID of copper instead of a garden hose. We could possibly have 1/2" ID copper hooked up but that is another expense.
Jim V - The chiller I have linked above can be dissassembled and cleaned visually.
Jim V, Jim C, Zach - I would like to have quick disconnects (QDs) at each station (the image Chris reposted) and be able to connect either the CFC or an immersion chiller, whichever you prefer.
I will look to put together some hard numbers on this. I still need more input as to yes or no from everyone before I approach the board.
Just eyeballing it looks like you'll need 10ft of 3/4 10ft of 1/2 10 reducing tees and a couple misc connectors. Pipe would be $30 fittings $25-30
Steve, Just sent you a pm
I don't see how a prechiller (especially when we have a pump to recirc) is any worse than futiley trying to chill with 85 degree water in July.
I'll say yes, this seems like a good solution.
Do I understand the reason JaDeD advised against a prechiller was essentially flow/volume issues? If we make this ourselves, it seems like something that could be accounted for in the design.
I would have to think it's a flow restriction issue on the input.
I suppose efficiency isn't the best word to descirbe my personal preferences. I'd rather spend a little more time and water chilling to my temperature and pitching right away than chilling to summer tap temps and waiting for the ferm room or lager fridge to do the rest of the work and pitching once that's occured.
Yeah, Zach, I think so.
Matt - My input would be to keep the cart and focus on the water hook-ups. The current set-up has put up with a ton of use and abuse and been very dependable. It is not that big of a deal to bring a couple bags of ice to help chill in the hot months, and at least with the current set up you have that option. I have used it dozens of times without any major problems, and I probably don't have to tell everyone how awesome my beer is.
I agree with Rich, his beer is awesome.
Also, I agree that we should focus on the water hook-ups for now, as that is the biggest issue.
That's a fair argument. Water hookups would be a few hours work, maybe $50 worth of parts and I would be happy to do that but it only remedies our mobility issue. I am most worried about cleanliness. I can post pictures of the beer slime that comes out of our chiller after a boiling PBW recirculation (which I've never seen anyone else do).
That's my .02
I think we also need to be addressing the option of more than one chiller available at one time due to increased brewhouse usage.
When new brewers are being supervised, it is generally concomitant with the supervisor's batch - so someone is getting hosed (heh) with regards to chilling. Also, weekend spaces can get to capacity where 4 people could be operating simultaneously.
Having more than one chiller, whatever the design may be, would help ameliorate this bottleneck.
Oh, I recirculate PBW, too. I look at it like the brew pots and mash tuns, which I clean before brewing, because I do not trust anyone other than me to clean them correctly.
Kyle, good point.
Jeff - That's why your beer is almost as awesome as mine....
With QDs at each station, the CFC and immersion chiller option is possible.
I would be happy to bring in my immersion chiller to leave at the club. It has garden hose size hookups on it and is just collecting dust in my closet. For those that want to use it, I would be happy to see it get used.
I have used the current chiller each time I have brewed and I have no problem bringing a bag of ice in the summer to make it cold enough. I think a how-to checklist and FAQ posted with the would go a long way with getting new/intermediate brewers more comfortable with it.
What about soldering a hinged metal cover on the top to put your pot on would eliminate the need to move the chiller. I know carrying a huge pot of hot wort is scary for some, rarely does anyone brew alone and there is usually someone around to help you carry it. (new work gloves might be a good investment).
QD's at each station was the original intention, and a fantastic idea. That allows for the most latitude, ideally I would like to see another CFC and pump available as well as an immersion chiller. Having 2 CFC's would ease the burden quite a bit, and make things a bit easier.
Also, the current hose on the chiller is long enough to reach all pots until a better solution is implemented. Please don't lift pots of boiling wort, as imperfect as it is, we have made our best efforts to ensure that no one would have to lift a pot of hot wort ever with this chiller. There is potential for life altering injuries, horrific burns, and all manner of nastiness.
What about just affixing gigantic wheels to the chiller cart so that it can roll over its own hoses? The cart would be able to move effortlessly around the brewhouse and it would look like one of those excellent Mars rovers.
I just saw this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q4_rb9n81SE
I know we had talked about hop screens previously, this seems like a fantastic solution, and probably makeable with the collective CHAOS skillset. If we build ourselves, we can make sure it is as tall as the pot (minimize tip-over based failure) and the diameter's big enough to allow circulation for whatever crazy amount of hops you kids are putting in these days.
Zach, not to burn you, (see what I did there?) but I think that's kind of unecessary. People can use their own hop bag ($5), whirlpool, false bottom or our wire strainers to get hops out. I've never had an issue, even when using over 1/2 # of hops.
I might disagree. One of the features I love most about the Tower of power is the hop blocker there. I think there needs to be something intergrated into the kettles, like Zachs suggestion, or even a bazoka screen to keep the hops from being pumped into the counter flow chiller.
Zach/Matt
Here's a DIY hop spider I saw awhile ago. I have been meaning to build one.
https://byo.com/build-it-yourself/item/2427-build-a-hop-spider-projects
The emperor is not as forgiving as i am
I built one exactly like that, works great. Some folks have reported the pvc melting, but that hasn't happend to me, yet (I'm sure I've jinxed myself now!)
www.singingboysbrewing.com
Zing!
My working assumption is that most issues at the brewhouse don't arise from laziness or lack of care about others, they arise from forgetfulness or lack of feedback. My main pitch for that metal guy over other options is to make it a no-brainer for brewers to maintain the gear.
If I forget a muslin bag (which I can honestly say I used to do like1/3 of the time before I finally bought a pack... now to remember to bring them to the brewhouse), I can't use it or the spider. If I forget to put the false bottom in before my boil, it ain't happening. Maybe lack of feedback doesn't 100% apply here, but what I mean by that generally is that I'm more likely to clean something that I can actually see if it's clean or dirty, rather than if it's hidden. I like the basket because I don't need to remember anything until the moment before I hop, and the debris stays in a place where I can see it needs cleaning, rather than disappearing into a line.
All that being said, maybe it gets filed under "nice to have someday" rather than "something we need soon." (If anyone wants to attempt to make this and needs a hand, I'd be happy to help! I just lack the requisite tools/know-how/testosterone required to dive in solo)
Imma bump this up one more time, it doesn't seem like there is a lot of interest in a complete overhaul. Still need to get pricing for water lines and QDs at each station.
I did price out the above hop spyder Bill posted and it would be around $85 to make 4.