Good Sunday morning, CHAOSers. A big *thank you* to whomever replenished the Star San supply - outstanding!
I wanted to start a discussion about sanitizing here because I noted this morning that "1 Pump = 5 Gallons!" had been written in marker on the Star San bottle and when I measured it, that ratio was not close to the recommended dilution, which is 1 oz per five gallons. When I tested it, by filling the measuring device on an empty Star San botle, one pump yielded less than 1/4 oz of Star San.
.jpg)
If someone made a batch of StarSan up for the brewhouse, with one pump of the product in five gallons of water, and all the brewers who used the brewhouse that day used the batch, nothing got sanitized that day. Very sobering.
.jpg)
I've left my empty bottle of Star San at the brewhouse, in front of the bulk container of Star San. I suggest using the empty bottle's measuring device to measure out the Star San. Its easy - pump the Star San directly into the measuring area, which is 1/2 ounce. So, filling that twice will give you enough Star San for a five gallon batch.
Also, measuring the water (which can be cold, heat doesn't help Star San work, unlike PBW is much more effective with hot water) is important - if you measure out 1 ounce of Star San but just eyeball the water, you won't have the right dilution and things won't get sanitized, potentially. I suggest using the 1 gallon metal pitchers to measure out the water.
I wrote out a brief set of instructions for making a five gallon Star San batch and left it by the PBW/Star San. Please let me know if you think I've got anything here wrong, or missed something, or misstated anything.
.jpg)
Thanks, Jim - I agree with everything you've said. Even when it said 7 pumps for 1 oz, it was off - a pump is not a unit of measurement.
For additional measure (in case the small bottle goes missing or something), I will bring in some 50 ml conical tubes and throw a few down by the SS. 1 oz ~= 30 ml. I will mark the tubes very clearly. Fill up the tube, and then just dump the whole thing, tube and all into 5 gallons of water and mix 'er up.
Also, don't forget about the new(ish) flat containers for sanitizing thieves and autosiphons.
In my opinion, there's no reason why people should be mixing up 10-15 gallons of star san at a time. 5 gallons is more than enough, even when the brewhouse is at capacity.
Start san keeps, doesn't it? I think you can just test it with Litums. Would it be worth creating a "star san" bucket from an old carboy and keep it around to save on costs/waste? If some one thinks that's a good idea, let me know, I'll order some Litmus strips to keep with the bucket.
If someone could take a Sharpie and label the blue and red tubs with gallons (like people do their carboys), that would be awesome. That way others don't have to sit there and count out the number of pitchers they've poured in there: fill up Kyle's tubes to the line with Star San, fill up the blue or red tub to the 5 (or 10) gallon mark and you're set!
I've found 7 pumps to measure 1oz every time I've tested it.
@KrisB Starsan keeps a lot longer with distilled water, but once it comes into contact with buffering minerals that it no longer the case. As long as the pH remains below 3 then it's still effective. Litmus paper is notoriously poor at doing it's job as it has a high inaccuracy, if you want to measure ph you need a ph meter (double useful for brewing and measuring the ph of mashes and sour beers you want a precision of 0.01 pH).
@Kyle I also have some 50mL conical bottom test tubes, what do you use them for? I use them for harvesting yeast from starters.
I use them for work :)
Kyle, bringing in accurate measuring tubes would be great - using either those or the Star San measuring device are both easy. Jim, the next time I'm in, I'll take a look at marking five and ten gallons on one of the tubs. I'm not sure how well even permanent marker will stay visible on those tubes after repeated uses, but we can check it out.
The real issue, I think, is getting whomever is making the StarSan to measure what they are doing, regardless of what methods they use to measure. When I come into the brewhouse and a batch is already made, I'm planning on asking who made it up, and then how they made it up - did they measure? This conversational approach is probably the most effective to getting everyone on the same page.
What do people think about typing up instructions, laminating them and putting them by the StarSan?
www.singingboysbrewing.com
Yeah, laminating instructions is a great idea.
I was just trying to make it as stupid simple (and quicker) for people as possible.
I think if we make it stupidly easy for people to measure it correctly we'll also make it stupidly hard to use TOO much starsan and run into problems where we go through a whole jug too quickly. Great Idea.
Or just mark a clear plastic cup with a fill line, rinse it and flip it on top of the dispenser when done.
+1, like, etc.!
Here's a link to a set of instructions, which I can laminate and leave in the brewhouse. Any thoughts or suggestions?
https://docs.google.com/document/d/17DnkMhNk62ugdkPAfeIEI2UdmYkcCzmNN221...
www.singingboysbrewing.com
Looks good to me! Are you making one for the PBW as well?
Don't know if this would overcomplicate things, but it might be worth explaining sanitizing a wine thief for drawing samples.
Just spray it? Mix a smaller amount of solution for the new smaller tray? I'm not sure where we netted out on that discussion.
Bill, I hadn't planned to write anything up on the PBW, but can look into it.
Steven, perhaps we could write up a few items like using the spray bottles and the trays for the back side of the sheet? I agree with you that we don't want to lose the primary message: 1) use 1 oz of Star San per five gallons of water and 2) measure it, don't guesstimate.
www.singingboysbrewing.com
Jim, it seems worth addressing what to do for drawing samples and bottling.
Maybe a second sheet for the bottling station?
If you are up for the writing, I could add a little design and get them printed.
Sounds good, Steven. I'll have the front be the core message - measure 1 oz Star San for 5 gallons of water. On the back, we can cover more specific instructions for bottling, taking samples, etc.
www.singingboysbrewing.com
Here's an updated version, one page front and back. Let me know what you think.
https://docs.google.com/document/d/17DnkMhNk62ugdkPAfeIEI2UdmYkcCzmNN221...
www.singingboysbrewing.com
Hi Jim,
I made a copy to add the ratios for three of the scenarios you described on the back.
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1VFePbg4LDdE0oQOKR63r_Kn5iwt5UpjaDht1...
I guess it's easier to just stick with 5 gallons or 2.5 gallons, but I added ratios for 1.25 gallons and 25 ounces. It is kinda crazy to think of measuring 1.15ml of Star San to 25 oz of water for a spray bottle, but I thought it might be nice to see the numbers on really small batches (with economy in mind).
~steven
I think that looks great. I agree, measuring out 1.15 ml of Star San isn't practical - we should fill the spray bottle when we make a five gallon batch of it.
Also, I've never used the trays, do we know for sure that they hold 1.25 gallons of sanitizer? If not, I can check that on Sunday when I'm at the brewhouse.
Again, Steven, I think your changes are great.
www.singingboysbrewing.com
Thanks Jim,
I did check the black tray that is for sanitizing wine thieves, tubes, etc., and it can hold 1.25 gallons, which is needed to fully submerge the thief. The tray can most likely can hold 2.5 gallons, it is designed for collecting motor oil. However, it is not long enough to hold auto siphons.
Mike S and I were discussing that a rectangular plastic planter box might be better. I've seen photos online of other home brewers using shallow planter boxes.
It is rare, but I have been to the brewhouse at times where there is not even Star San in spray bottles. I guess it would make sense to just mix 1.25 gallons to fill a couple of spray bottles.
I updated the three column table to:
When Brewing:
1 ounce Star San to 5 Gallons H2O
Bottling & Kegging:
1/2 ounce Star San to 2.5 Gallons H2O
Drawing Samples:
1/4 ounce Star San to 1.25 Gallons H2O
A little measuring cup leashed to the star san jug handle would be very handy.
Perfect, Steven, thanks!
We can look for a measuring cup that measures in 1/4 or 1/2 ounces. The Star San measuring device, built into the empty bottle, is very convenient - its got 1/2 and 1/4 ounce markings, so easy to measure out 1, 1/2 or 1/4 ounce.
Do you want to print this out or shall I? Laminating it would be good, too.
www.singingboysbrewing.com
Jim, I can go to FedEx office to print and laminate, might as well do two.
Any ideas on where to place it?
I will bring in measuring "cups" on Saturday and mark them accordingly.
I'm a little surprised there is an issue about overuse as the biggest concern is underuse
Still, a posted SOP document is a step forward to tighten things up. But also, in practice, we more need more practical measures. There should be an one-once measure cup available for the larger (cheaper), pump starsan containers (like, say, the string-tethered pen at the bank) so there is no confusion either way (and no - one pump is not an once, it's 6-9 pumps.)
Also, the tubs should have graduated gallon marks. And the tubs should be colored-coded or at least really clearly labeled for either PBW or starsan (ideally red for acid-starstan and blue for base-pbw) so there's no confusion when there's multiple brewers changing over.
Sean, there is a 1/.2 ounce measuring cup by the pump now - easy peasy.
I think marking the five gallon mark on a tub is a great idea and if someone hasn't done it before then, I'll do it when I'm in the brewhouse on Sunday. But I"m not hopeful about how long even a permanent marker will last on the tub. Maybe I'll be wrong. The pitchers are one gallon - using them to measure the water is also easy.
www.singingboysbrewing.com
We used to have a pen in the brew house that would write on glass and NEVER come off... I bet there's something like that else can use mark gallon lines on the tubs...
Or write on other surfaces, too, and never come off.
I'll look for it in the brewhouse, Jim
www.singingboysbrewing.com
I know that someone knows the name of these kinds of pens. It was white "ink" and a stiff "felt tip" (for lack of better terms), and the ink looked somewhat oily.
I think you are talking about a paint pen Jim. Probably oil-based.
Aha! Yes! "Paint pen"! That's it! Thanks, Rich!
I'll pick one up and bring it when I brew tomorrow. I need to re-label some of my stuff anyway. In fact, I might re-label some of Pete's stuff as mine while I am at it. Any color preference? Black, White, Lilac?
Periwinkle.
Bright Orange?
Stands out on blue plastic and clear glass.
Having both white and black would be best.
I got a black one. They had no bright orange Steven, sorry, and he said someone bought all the white ones recently. I'll have to swing by Home Depot, Ace was not the place. Where do you want me to leave it so you guys can find it when I'm done?
How about the desk, around the corner from the keezer? I'll be in on Sunday morning and can carefully measure and mark five gallons if no one gets to it before then.
www.singingboysbrewing.com
It's there, on the top shelf. Looks like there are some more in the cup below too.