Right now there are two great, active threads going on about brew vessel cleaning and sanitization, so I thought it might be a good time to test the waters on a third topic related to cleanliness.
As one of the newest members, I thought maybe I could offer a unique perspective. I want to be mindful here that I am almost quite literally calling your baby ugly, and I don't mean any offense by this. To keep it short: I almost didn't join because I perceived the brewhouse as dirty and gross the few times I visited.
Clearly I did join though, and I'm really glad I did. I have 4 batches under my belt in less than a month from joining, I feel really lucky to have found CHAOS and I'm telling all my friends.
In fact, I've realized since joining that the brew area is actually really clean. But I still feel like the bar area is a different story. The bar area reminds me of the basement of my college frat house, which I don't mean as a compliment. I now recognize that the multicolored tan and brown paint scheme is intentional but to be honest I don't "get it". It looks like someone tore plaster off the walls and then left them bare. Maybe there is some club history behind this to which I'm not privvy? I'm no expert, but I think a coat of paint could do wonders for that area to start. Maybe followed by some seating upgrades to replace the casting couch?
I mention this all, though, because I think that there is a lot of potential to have a really great space (that does the beautiful bar justice) with just a little bit of work. Work that I want to volunteer to help with!!
What do others think? Is there a desire to improve this area of the club?
I have a 47" flat screen TV coming available this winter (definitely will be replaced soon, probably on Black Friday) that I'd be willing to donate. I know another newer member has AV installation connections and experience but I'll let him volunteer himself.
That's great, Matt! Count me in as being willing to help.
www.singingboysbrewing.com
I COULDN'T AGREE MORE, MATT! First impressions are important and I think the bar area is ugly as sin.
(BTW, anyone and everyone - new member or old member - should feel free to offer up suggestions on how to improve the place)
We do have money set aside to spruce up the front area. If you'd like to take the lead on this project, you sohuld team up with a Board Member willing to assist and make this happen.!
I would be happy to help paint and do other labor to improve the front bar area. I know this is something we have discussed as a club for a while about fixing up. It's always a debate... do we put money in our brewhouse or the front bar area? We agree, we'd all like it to look nicer, it's just a matter of when and where we put our money into a project. Our clubhouse, the entire space, is a work in progress... We are always looking at ways to improve it and I believe it's improved immensely in the past 2 years that we've been in the space, but of course we can do more. Thanks for offering to help out.
In addiiton, in the past I have offered to frame some of our past CHAOS party posters and other graphics. I'd rather see them in frames hanging on the walls then taped, nailed or push pined. I would be happy to purchase and donate the frames and hang up the graphics and beer poster art properly... once the walls are finished of course.
The Board already earmarked $200 for "Bar Floor" and $3,000 for "Misc Contractor (Bar and Brewhouse)" at the Board Retreat this past summer.
So, if you're willing to take the lead on this, Matt, I'll step up and assist in coming up with a list of what needs to be done and help price it out. The bar area really does need some serious lovin'.
I'm no interior designer or anything, but I like a good DIY project.
I'd like to get to the brewhouse and take some pictures and measurements. For now I found this:
(whole gallery here: https://www.chaosbrewclub.net/content/img0732jpg)
Off the top of my head, I'd say we need 1. drywall, 2. paint, 3. lighting, 4. furniture
I have a few ideas that I sketched out but I'd be interested to see what someone more qualified could come up with. The layout is still a little fuzzy (as denoted by the large question mark in my makeshift floorplan...)
It would be cool to have something to show for our efforts by the time Stout and Chili night rolls around...
http://tinfoilhatbrewery.com/
I'm all for the tv! We were just talking about getting one for the bar area!
I like what you've got going on there with the rasied bench thing. And Kudos to you for stepping up to the plate, we need that. When I joined CHAOS several years ago it was first described to me as a "work in progress" and that is one of the best attributes of the club I think. It's always improving and moving forward and it takes new members like you to step up and see things in a fresh light and keep progress moving. Keep it up!
The raised bench seating with narrow tables is pretty sweet! Great idea. I'm also in for manual labor.
Whoa, I somehow missed the sketches. The raised bench seating is great! Is it possible to make it removable?
Why would we want to move it, Jeff? Just so we can take it with us if/when we move? Or, do you foresee a need to move it on a regular basis?
I think this is awesome idea! Way to jump right in, Matt!
The only thing I would add is we should make the seat cushions on the raised seating removable so that we can use it as storage (like on a boat).
I'll be at the brew house tonight and I'll take some measurements. If you want to know any specific measurements, let me know.
More seating at standing height is probably the best thing we could do in that area. I really like the drawing of the raised seats with narrow table. I was thinking of something simple like more round high top tables and stools, but that drawing would be a huge plus in the first impression area and making it feel more like a real bar.
I have some vague recollection that there is a baseboard heating radiator along that wall - if that's correct, that woudl make doing built-in bench seating difficult. But I don't remember for sure, will check it out whenn I'm at the brewhouse later today.
And I'd be happy to be a part of the work crew putting up dry wall, painting, constructing benches, or whatever is needed.
And I love Nancy's suggestion about framing our posters, that would be very cool.
www.singingboysbrewing.com
There is a baseboard heater along that wall. It's about a foot and a half off the ground.
The emperor is not as forgiving as i am
Yes, so we can bring it with us if we move....
I know nothing about this kind of stuff but i'm definately willing to help with manual labor!
Also, the heater stops at the steel beam in front of the couch, so we could always use the couch's space.
If there's a heater there then we might need to adjust. I don't even know if there's enough space for what I sketched out, really my line of thinking was the same as Grizwald's. Whenever I'm at the brewhouse and people are socializing in the bar area, they are mostly standing so it would be good to have more bar-height seating and table space.
Anyway, the thing I think is still missing is some sort of area to sit around and e.g. play cards or something. I'm pretty sure there's a hi-top table at the brewhouse right now and I drew it into my floorplan sketch but it's still half baked.
In any case, maybe we should back up and think about what we want to get out of the space first, and then decide how to accomplish that next. I think these are the three that I've thrown out there so far:
http://tinfoilhatbrewery.com/
When I'm at the brew house later tonight, I plan to measure the following: between the door and the metal beam (i.e., above the heater); between the bar and the east wall; between the bathroom and east wall; between the beam and the fridge (i.e., where the existing couch is).
Except for the raised booth idea, I'm all for stuff that doesn't sit on the floor (so we don't have to move it). So, I'm not in favor of more tall boys. We should make every attempt to be economical with our space.
What we could do over the heater is have a long narrow ledge/table affixed to the wall (just 12" or so deep but nicely stained with some elbow brackets to match the metal on the raised booths; or, maybe even an identical ledge/table and metalwork as we'd use on the raised booths themselves) and we can have four more bar stools in front of that (so the heater would be unobstructed, only people's feet would be near it and only when they're sitting down). If the raised booths don't fit/work, we could always run this same little ledge/table with bar stools all the way across the east wall.
I myself am not very handy either (although when I need to do something I just research it and go at it). But, maybe we need to recruit someone who is indeed handy to tell us how much dry wall we'd need to finish the front wall and what tools we'd need to accomplish the job (and if we need anything like insulation behind it).
But, we most definitely have some momentum here! This is exciting!
My concern is that we would create seating for 6 while knocking out standing room for 12. The front room gets crowded during parties and meetings, having nice seating for only half the people in the room would be weird.
I thought a drink rail along the wall across the bar with backless narrow stools would be nice. If the couch was removed, flip top benches that double as storage bins could be added, along with overhead shelving.
Part of our clutter problem is lack of shelving and storage, so benches that can store stuff would be nice.
There are clearly parts of the bar area that require very little planning and design (dry-walling and painting the rest of the front wall) and others which do (seating vs. drink rail).
I noticed some things that require more work than we thought: e.g., the east wall is entirely plaster and it is cracking/gone in parts. What do we do there? Re-plaster? Dry-wall the entire east wall? Something to discuss further.
I really want to agree with you, Steven, about the seating vs. standing area. But, 361 days of the year, that front area is intended for chilling and hanging out. I'm sure there's some compromise to be had here, though.
This is sorta-kinda going off in another direction but clutter has ALWAYS been our problem. Case in point, there's a fucking bar fridge with a jockeybox on it in the bar area. It's been there for longer than it should have been; it's just in the way. Shit needs to have a place; mise en place. No matter how nice we make the front bar area look, if it's constantly dirty, untidy, and downright cluttered with shit, it's still going to be unattractive. Period.
Oh, and, BTW, I didn't say this yet:YES TO THE TV!! It would be awesome to be able to watch beer documentaries (or maybe even a little football) at the brewhouse.
I love this! I also agree with the first impression experience of the bar area, I have been a member for just under a year. If there is some type of committee forming to work on this project, please count me in!
I also really like Steven's idea of benches that can store stuff.
I do like the high bench design. When you sit on the low sofa, it feels like you are at the kids table at Thanksgiving.
Even though we have few big gatherings, we need to remember we are social club committed to hosting meetings, classes, and parties. Tonight we have a class-like judging event with a dozen or more people, then Chuck's party should draw around 30 people.
We have to keep 5-6 feet wide pathways clear so two people can walk past each other without having to shimmy up on each other, or have to stop and let someone through, which creates nasty bottle necks in large gatherings.
I can take some pics and measure today. The radiator is a challenge.
have pics and measurements I grabbed last night, will post shortly
http://tinfoilhatbrewery.com/
Okay, I stand corrected. 350 days a year there are fewer than 30 people there. Classes don't get that big and if we're talking about tonight's judging (or even classes), I think it rude NOT to have enough comfortable seating for our member and guest judges in favor of standing area for events.
Currently we don't even have 5-6 feet between the tall boy and the bar, much less between the tall boy and people sitting at the bar. So, if that's the standard we go by, this discussion is moot: there's no room to do anything along the east wall.
What about one long rail along the east wall and the hackers among us help us build some folding three-legged tractor seat stools that can fold up and hang on the wall beneath the rail? Plenty of seating when needed but can be folded out of the way for larger events?
Following Jim C's suggestion, maybe break this up into two segments - 1) walls and 2) furnishings. We can get going on the walls while mulling over the bench/tables/railing/chairs options.
Like others have said, I can help with dry walling and painting.
Who on the board is going to take the lead with Matt on this project? We've got lots of folks who have volunteered to work, but we need a lead.
www.singingboysbrewing.com
Agreed. Step 1, drywall and paint so that we can start with a blank slate. Step 2, lighting, furniture, furnishings.
I'm glad the sketches got some creative juices flowing and got people excited about this, but they also jumped the gun a bit. So let's start with Step 1 first so we have something to build on top of.
http://tinfoilhatbrewery.com/
I had already asked the Board if anyone was willing to co-lead this with Matt and no one bit. I'd gladly help out as a liaison to the Board.
If we're going with walls, etc first, someone who is handy and can tell us what materials and tools we need should be consulted/recruited. As I posted earlier, $3K was allotted for misc. contract work in the front area. The more we can take care of in-house and for less money is great!
Matt - For some reason my email alerts on new forum posts stopped hitting my inbox, but I love the direction of this project. We can talk off-line about some of the hurdles we need to clear in the front bar area as it relates to past requests from our landlord and provisions in our lease. It's definitely doable, there are just several areas in the front bar area that need to be addressed first or we could be jeopardizing the continuation of our current lease.
http://tinfoilhatbrewery.com/
http://tinfoilhatbrewery.com/
Looks great. But there is also a window on the wall with the outside door, we should indicate that.
I have also asked that we install a peep hole on that door, so let's add that to the list of Front Bar area todo list.
As a board member, I'm all for this project, and I think Matt's design is awesome. I'll give my support right through build day.
We all agree there needs to be more seating. I think seating for 20 would be a good target. Stools along a drink rail would give us that and leave a 3 foot walkway.
We do not need to pick a design yet, but can we all agree the room should seat at least 20 people?
Yes, 20 people sounds good. I like the idea of the drink ledge and the stools, it gives us more options to move things around if we need too.
Stools and a drink shelf would seem to be the best option.
Can I also suggest that we get another security gate for the front door. Many times in the summer when brewing I have had the front door and the garage door open to get some air flow. When I'm there by myself it is hard to keep an eye on the front door all the time. People see the bar and tend to wander in. I believe someone's bike was stolen from the front this past summer due to the door being open.
The emperor is not as forgiving as i am
Yes. I think that's a good idea for the front door too. Air flow and security are both important.
Ok, last design idea today. One aspect of the bench and table design I like is you could sit along the wall and face the bar. If you were in a class on judging beer, you would want room to rest a drink and write notes. I think little swing out tables from a drink rail could also allow people to sit facing the bar on stools, then you could set them against the wall when you want to open the space up.
There is also the possibility of swing out stools - especially if we are concerned about space. I had seen them somewhere on my travels and tried to do a quick search, This was the closest I could find.
However I have also seen where the seat folds/pivots down for when they want to maximize open space.
Also, if we did find some type of wall mount swing/pivot, then it saves space for when we want to store the seats. Just thinking that because space is a premium. After all, we can't even store our jockey boxes....
DAMN! This discussion has some definite traction! Nice work, Everyone! Keep chiming in and we'll eventually suss out a design and execution for this with some definite results indeed by Stout & Chili Night!
Just another suggestion re: general process. As we sorta-kinda decided above that getting the walls done is the first step while we work on the more subjective design of the rail/stools.
Taking this one step further I think that the order in which we tackle the walls is easiest wall to most difficult wall: north/front wall (easiest for obvious reasons); east wall (heater/couch wall); anything we're doing around the south "wall" (e.g., the dividers b/w the bar area and fridge area including the bathroom exterior); then west wall (behind the bar).
I know that the bar is so heavy, bulky, and unwieldy the decision was made to just keep in place even when the bona fide conractors did their work up there. I'm certain that people will "encourage" us to do the same for this project. We may want to consider simply paiting the west wall (lease permitting) rather than try to dry wall it.
Regarding all the east (heater/couch) wall stuff: are there studs or other such verticals that will sufficiently hold the weight of a rail (and swing-out tables if we choose to go that route)? Do we even have a secure wall to which we can affix this rail, &c.?
I have been busy, so I've only just skimmed this, forgive me for what I've missed--there is a lot here. Really excited about this; I would love to feel like we had a club house and I could just go down and hang out/play cards, etc.
I think swing out stools are a bad idea. Stud's are not built take the weight of 200lb man on a 3 foot 90-degree lever. Also, industrial buildings are wierd, do we even know what's in the walls?
I grew up in my Dad's carpentry buisness, so I'm happy to help out a little if you need someone to do drywall and finish kind of things. I'd def be down for a "one day build". My experiance with stuff like this is that numbers go a long way. Space that size, six people with a good plan, can probably do a whirlwind on the place. Especially if all prep work has been done beforehand (drywall, removing rails, priming, etc).
Is someone taking point on this and doing estimates etc? Is there a plan for a sit down meeting to really nail down a plan? Thanks guys, this is awesome!
Maybe we should have some sort of meeting to just talk out some of the many ideas and finally decide on one? It may be a lot more helpful to get everyone in the same room, esp. those who are handy.
With so many people pumped and ready to go about this we could easily assign people different tasks to complete at a meeting as opposed to a long and confusing forum post.
Forgot who asked it but sounds like Matt Kopecki is taking lead with Board support from Steven Lane. Among other things, I'll keep this post from scrolling of the main page and getting lost and forgotten forever.
Good idea on the meeting! Let's start suggesting dates!
Hey Folks, I put a meeting on the event calendar for tomorrow (Tue Nov 17, 6-9pm). The idea was to discuss event planning and figure out a better way to manage our volunteer efforts for our seasonal fundraising parties, especially with the 5th Annual Stout & Chili Night coming up quick.
We can add this to the agenda, but we should set up another meeting dedicated to brewhouse improvements. Matt Omura cannot do weeknights with his new work schedule (Stout Night project leader.)
Could we pick an afternoon this weekend to meet?
Kris, I think we're generally in agreement on the need for stools. I would like to add that stools have an added advantage of being movable, like when Randy Mosher does a class and we get over thirty people packed into the brew area. We need to be able to configure the brewhouse for various scenarios.
Ken Getty pointed out we need to consider some limitations put on us by our lease, so I think the first planning meeting would have to start by acknowledging what our design constraints are.
Steven, is it the Stout Night meeting you want to reschedule for this weekend?
Hey Jeff, I did not mean to cancel the Stout Night planning meeting tomorrow. We are still on for 6pm.
I think the bar area is worth a separate meeting, just wanted to point out that for future meetings weekends are better for Matt.
Gotcha, see you tomorrow!
Hoorah! #momentum #shitgettindone
I have a full weekend but I may be available late Sunday evening/night. But, you guys just go ahead and decide on a date/time and I'll join you if I can.
I was thinking about the weight of the bar. Very heavy as pointed out earlier to move. We could just fill Bill "Canuck" Sansom up with some Mallort and point him in the direction. It might have a Hulk effect on him that could be useful.
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