Pretty basic document so far but I think we need a base to work from rather than just throwing ideas out there. Maybe this can help us get more specific for what's in vs. what's out of each phase of work we want to do, and then we can start to dig in and put some dollars and cents around this whole thing?
Right on Matt, nice job of capturing everything, phases is a very realistic approach, glad you addressed sight lines to the TV, and storage should definitely fit into the overall plan.
Ken mentioned having a talk with you offline to discuss what our lease would allow. It strikes me we are stuck till we know what the lease allows.
My assumption is we either:
1. Get permission to improve, throw some money into this, and really build out the space, or
2. No permission, we're forced to do temporary free-standing movable add-ons.
Once this is determined, we should refine the ideas presented and make a group decision.
I don't know what security gates cost and/or if we wanted particular features but I went all the way to the back of the "tool closet" to see what crap lay there and - lo and behold! - there was a security gate there. Looks like the only thing we'd need is a pad lock (vel sim.) to indeed keep it secure when closed but we've got one.
Come into this discussion a bit late.
Anyway, I'd be happy to be lead on the construction.
That being said, does anyone want to volunteer as my apprentice? I am looking for someone to take over as the general maintenance person for the entire space.
Also, come Mid January we will be getting a proper behind the bar 3 sink system and refrigeration units from Blue Frog.
Yes, the bar is tower ready. The bar was supposed to come with a tower, but that didn't happen.
Tangentially related, we are going to upgrade our jockey boxes, and we need to design and make wooden covers, tap handles, chalkboards, and figure out logo placement. Matt Omura is leading the effort to get new equipment, we should start a thread dedicated to jockey box design and decoration when they arrive.
We look kinda lame at beer fests, so it's time to make the jockey boxes look good (and movable.) The jockey box sarcophagus we have now is too damn heavy.
Do we want to add organization/storage to the list of bar area improvements? For the glassware, instead of it piling up behind the bar, why not have rack(s) on the wall where we can put them?
Never mind the people in this photo but it's of Paw Paw Brewing in Michigan with their mugs on the wall and I've had this idea ever since I visited in 2011 or 2012.
Hardcore/regular members among us can get our own stein/beer mug and keep it at the brewhouse (just like the carboy wall, only the person whose glass it is can use it). And then we have 15-20 spots for generic beer mugs. This way, we have glassware for non-regular members to use but we're not a repository for people's overflow glassware from home (nor is glassware sitting on the bar or on the forthcoming behind-the-bar sinks and refrigerator; they're up and out of the way).
I'm not sure any hardcore craftbeer people would want to drink beer out of a ceramic mug. It does nothing for the experience of drinking beer... You can't observe the color or get the full aroma like you do in a tulip. I'd never drink out of a mug.
In the two-door SS fridge/freezer that doesn't work, there are tons of spices and misc cooking ingredients. When that fridge goes, we will have to find a place for those items.
Also, if we actually get those two behind-the-bar pieces, we will have NO room behind the bar for the stuff that currently resides there (misc food services items, a ton of glassware - hence my suggestion of a PawPaw-like hanging glassware setup) and we will need to find a spot for it.
So, I ask that we factor in some storage plans for the front bar area (or elsewhere?) to accommodate.
Also, if we are going the route of the raised bench, I discourage storage beneath the seating (although I was one of the ones who suggested it). If we can't see it, it's going to sit there and be lost to the ages and/or we run the risk of it just being some place we cram shit in an emergency (read, "day-of set up for parties") and then we never get to removing it and/or organizing it.
I'll be available the weekend of December 12/13 for making improvements. That would give us 2 weeks to get everything set and ready. Any one else want to plan to do some work then?
I may be available the 13th to help out. I say, don't let the lack of communication stop this project from moving forward: there has to be something we can do to improve that front bar area even if we can't, for example, repaint. So, let's move forward with ideas and then whenever Ken is free, he can let us know which ideas are a go and which are not.
I assume Mark and Chuck are also are aware of the limitations in our lease, perhaps we can address this at our next meeting, or even a sidebar discussion at the holiday party.
Mark and Ken both definitely know the lease/landlord; I've reached out to them via personal e-mail in case they haven't been following this thread in particular. I don't think Chuck knows as much as Ken and Mark.
This is all great - I'm really glad to see new people take the lead on things. I'm the landlord's contact within CHAOS and I'll be happy to coordinate what we do and don't need signoff on. Everything I've seen so far looks like stuff we can do on our own. One practical design note - I see the wall mounted stools - that likely will not work on that wall. It's lathe / plaster with brick behind and the brick is fairly powery in some areas. Sinking evenly spaced anchors that support ~500 pounds (two people or one dynamic load of someone dancing on them) per stool is not going to be easy. I'd suggest anything being supported from the floor.
A large number of our members, including myself will be running the NM Hombrew competition on Dec. 12. So I will not be able to help that day.
I also personally think December with all the holidays is not the best time for a build day. Many people are gathering with friends and family to celebrate the season. I would like to propose an early-mid January date, that would be a better time to get this work done and have more hands on deck to help.
I'm one of the folks who volunteered to judge at CHAOS' NM competition and so couldn't help on that day, but if we can find a day that works, I'm happy to help drywall and paint.
I can help sometime in January. At this point I am an excellent drywaller/mudder (100 sheets in the last year) and have the tools for it. And can do pretty much anything else.
Jim I love the glass idea. This is another version of it utilizing the ceiling.
> I would like to propose an early-mid January date
OK, how about January 16 and 17? Gives us some time to catch our breath after the holidays but leaves enough time for the paint to dry before Stout and Chili Night. No events on our calendar for then either. FYI, Monday the 18th is Marting Luther King Jr. Day, so I don't know if that makes it a long weekend for some...
Both @JamesLewis and @ChuckMac have volunteered to be our handymen to lead us, and I know there are a number of others who want to lend a hand too.
Also, this gives us time to have a beer ready to fuel us. Who's volunteering for that portion of the activities? @Boolish December Tuesday Brewsday is already planned, right?
I can help out on the 17th. The 16th is the Chicago Winter Brew Competition and some of us will be there judging. Jeff probably is too, he just doesn't know it ; )
I'm going to take pictures of specfic areas along the front wall and above the bar that have been area specifically mentioned by our landlord. I was planning on stopping in on Thursday night to do so.
For certain we need to get a functioning illuninated Exit sign above the front door, which was purchased long ago but may have been misplaced/lost at this point.
Matt, not sure what the plan is for painting, but I have a neighbor that does faux finishes and restoration work on old mansions downtown.
I also have a friend that does graffiti murals, and he's done some nice subtle monochromatic watermark-like wall treatments. I think it would be cool to have CHAOS really large on the north wall.
Anyhow, I think we could source some talented folks to help.
It looks like I could assist either the 16th or the 17th.
What about two crews? One on Saturday, one on Sunday? Right now some are saying can do either (like me, Jim C, Matt, Ken) but there is also a group that can only do the 17th. With a plan, we could knock out stuff on Saturday that would be prep for Sunday's crew.
Should probably also set those as no brew days on the calendar if we are kicking shit up in the air.
I've noticed this forum keeps alerting that it has updated posts, but the last post I can see is from forgette about pumping Bill full of Malort? Anyone else having this issue? Am I missing posts?
I'm free that weekend too. I don't know how to do much, but I make a halfway decent gopher.
And you're right, we don't want people brewing those days. I just blocked off reservations from 9am Saturday Jan 16 until 6pm on Sunday, just to be on the safe side. Anyone with admin rights can (probably?) remove that block if that weekend falls through.
> What about two crews? One on Saturday, one on Sunday?
That could work, but I think we need a fearless leader designated for the 16th still. The two people so far that have raised their hand as experienced carpenters/handymen/drywallers are @JamesLewis and @ChuckMac, and @JamesLewis has said he's probably out for the 16th.
Who will be our Crew Chief for each day? Let's get that nailed down first.
So, I took the time to catch up on this, sorry for the delay. I can help on the 16th. I have drywall experiance and needed tools. I'll bring them. Sorry I haven't been more active. Can I still suggest reviewing the below things for addition to the spread sheet that has been created?
-Molding for the front door and possibly the window.
-Ripping out the strange metal rail on the wall over the bathroom. (if not structural)
-Cleaning out the bathroom, or at least hanging a curtain to hide all of the junk.
-build better shelving in the storage closet. That'd be pretty easy and have huge gains (like moving stuff in bathroom).
-Buy a folding table and chairs for it. Or two so we can seat 10 for meetings, classes, or game nights.
-Curtains for the entry between the Keezer area and the rest of the brew house. I think it would really help to seperate the nice space we are looking to create from the "work space". Even just hanging open I think it would really warm up the bar area.
Also, on a side note, I talked to one of the alchemists about fixing up our Keezer. The lid sits crooked and the wood is not in the best shape. I can replace the wood, level, and create a sealant lip for the lid in a day. Should cost under 100$. If there is a desire for this I can open a thread about how the club wants that to look. I have built a keezer before, so I feel pretty confident about this.
In the interest of progress, I thought I'd catalog everything we've thrown out there so far into a wishlist:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1188cX4WEOmMzaVOXipmNSenBxkZQllax...
Pretty basic document so far but I think we need a base to work from rather than just throwing ideas out there. Maybe this can help us get more specific for what's in vs. what's out of each phase of work we want to do, and then we can start to dig in and put some dollars and cents around this whole thing?
http://tinfoilhatbrewery.com/
Right on Matt, nice job of capturing everything, phases is a very realistic approach, glad you addressed sight lines to the TV, and storage should definitely fit into the overall plan.
Ken mentioned having a talk with you offline to discuss what our lease would allow. It strikes me we are stuck till we know what the lease allows.
My assumption is we either:
1. Get permission to improve, throw some money into this, and really build out the space, or
2. No permission, we're forced to do temporary free-standing movable add-ons.
Once this is determined, we should refine the ideas presented and make a group decision.
I don't know what security gates cost and/or if we wanted particular features but I went all the way to the back of the "tool closet" to see what crap lay there and - lo and behold! - there was a security gate there. Looks like the only thing we'd need is a pad lock (vel sim.) to indeed keep it secure when closed but we've got one.
Come into this discussion a bit late.
Anyway, I'd be happy to be lead on the construction.
That being said, does anyone want to volunteer as my apprentice? I am looking for someone to take over as the general maintenance person for the entire space.
Also, come Mid January we will be getting a proper behind the bar 3 sink system and refrigeration units from Blue Frog.
Are those refrigeration units going to support more taps? I noticed this in the middle of the bar the other day, looks like it's ready for a tower
http://tinfoilhatbrewery.com/
Yes, the bar is tower ready. The bar was supposed to come with a tower, but that didn't happen.
Tangentially related, we are going to upgrade our jockey boxes, and we need to design and make wooden covers, tap handles, chalkboards, and figure out logo placement. Matt Omura is leading the effort to get new equipment, we should start a thread dedicated to jockey box design and decoration when they arrive.
We look kinda lame at beer fests, so it's time to make the jockey boxes look good (and movable.) The jockey box sarcophagus we have now is too damn heavy.
Do we want to add organization/storage to the list of bar area improvements? For the glassware, instead of it piling up behind the bar, why not have rack(s) on the wall where we can put them?
Never mind the people in this photo but it's of Paw Paw Brewing in Michigan with their mugs on the wall and I've had this idea ever since I visited in 2011 or 2012.
Hardcore/regular members among us can get our own stein/beer mug and keep it at the brewhouse (just like the carboy wall, only the person whose glass it is can use it). And then we have 15-20 spots for generic beer mugs. This way, we have glassware for non-regular members to use but we're not a repository for people's overflow glassware from home (nor is glassware sitting on the bar or on the forthcoming behind-the-bar sinks and refrigerator; they're up and out of the way).
I'm not sure any hardcore craftbeer people would want to drink beer out of a ceramic mug. It does nothing for the experience of drinking beer... You can't observe the color or get the full aroma like you do in a tulip. I'd never drink out of a mug.
Sorry. I wasn't clear. Members can drink out of whatever they want. I was suggesting the same concept as Paw Paw not the same materials.
Let's not lose this momentum......Matt K., have you spoken with Ken Getty about what we can/can't do?
RE: STORAGE -
In the two-door SS fridge/freezer that doesn't work, there are tons of spices and misc cooking ingredients. When that fridge goes, we will have to find a place for those items.
Also, if we actually get those two behind-the-bar pieces, we will have NO room behind the bar for the stuff that currently resides there (misc food services items, a ton of glassware - hence my suggestion of a PawPaw-like hanging glassware setup) and we will need to find a spot for it.
So, I ask that we factor in some storage plans for the front bar area (or elsewhere?) to accommodate.
Also, if we are going the route of the raised bench, I discourage storage beneath the seating (although I was one of the ones who suggested it). If we can't see it, it's going to sit there and be lost to the ages and/or we run the risk of it just being some place we cram shit in an emergency (read, "day-of set up for parties") and then we never get to removing it and/or organizing it.
I haven't heard anything else from Ken.
I'll be available the weekend of December 12/13 for making improvements. That would give us 2 weeks to get everything set and ready. Any one else want to plan to do some work then?
http://tinfoilhatbrewery.com/
Tha'ts unfortunate, Matt.
I may be available the 13th to help out. I say, don't let the lack of communication stop this project from moving forward: there has to be something we can do to improve that front bar area even if we can't, for example, repaint. So, let's move forward with ideas and then whenever Ken is free, he can let us know which ideas are a go and which are not.
I can make time that weekend to help.
I assume Mark and Chuck are also are aware of the limitations in our lease, perhaps we can address this at our next meeting, or even a sidebar discussion at the holiday party.
Mark and Ken both definitely know the lease/landlord; I've reached out to them via personal e-mail in case they haven't been following this thread in particular. I don't think Chuck knows as much as Ken and Mark.
This is all great - I'm really glad to see new people take the lead on things. I'm the landlord's contact within CHAOS and I'll be happy to coordinate what we do and don't need signoff on. Everything I've seen so far looks like stuff we can do on our own. One practical design note - I see the wall mounted stools - that likely will not work on that wall. It's lathe / plaster with brick behind and the brick is fairly powery in some areas. Sinking evenly spaced anchors that support ~500 pounds (two people or one dynamic load of someone dancing on them) per stool is not going to be easy. I'd suggest anything being supported from the floor.
That gate was orginally attached a long time ago - people thought it made the place look schetchy, so we took it down. It can go back up anytime.
A large number of our members, including myself will be running the NM Hombrew competition on Dec. 12. So I will not be able to help that day.
I also personally think December with all the holidays is not the best time for a build day. Many people are gathering with friends and family to celebrate the season. I would like to propose an early-mid January date, that would be a better time to get this work done and have more hands on deck to help.
I'm one of the folks who volunteered to judge at CHAOS' NM competition and so couldn't help on that day, but if we can find a day that works, I'm happy to help drywall and paint.
www.singingboysbrewing.com
I can help sometime in January. At this point I am an excellent drywaller/mudder (100 sheets in the last year) and have the tools for it. And can do pretty much anything else.
Jim I love the glass idea. This is another version of it utilizing the ceiling.
> I would like to propose an early-mid January date
OK, how about January 16 and 17? Gives us some time to catch our breath after the holidays but leaves enough time for the paint to dry before Stout and Chili Night. No events on our calendar for then either. FYI, Monday the 18th is Marting Luther King Jr. Day, so I don't know if that makes it a long weekend for some...
Both @JamesLewis and @ChuckMac have volunteered to be our handymen to lead us, and I know there are a number of others who want to lend a hand too.
Also, this gives us time to have a beer ready to fuel us. Who's volunteering for that portion of the activities? @Boolish December Tuesday Brewsday is already planned, right?
http://tinfoilhatbrewery.com/
I could probably help out on the afternoon of the 16th.
I can help out on the 17th. The 16th is the Chicago Winter Brew Competition and some of us will be there judging. Jeff probably is too, he just doesn't know it ; )
www.singingboysbrewing.com
Crap, LOL, good call! I signed up for that yesterday!!
Me too. I can't help on the 16th either. 17th could work though.
That's my daughter's bday weekend, so maybe I could help supply the beer instead :)
I could help out both days - until about 2:30 if needed.
I too shall be there...one of the days.
hey Ken, any more news on what we can/can't, should/shouldn't do?
http://tinfoilhatbrewery.com/
I'm going to take pictures of specfic areas along the front wall and above the bar that have been area specifically mentioned by our landlord. I was planning on stopping in on Thursday night to do so.
For certain we need to get a functioning illuninated Exit sign above the front door, which was purchased long ago but may have been misplaced/lost at this point.
I can definitely make at least one of those days work!
If winterbrew is that day I imagine I will be there as well.
Matt, not sure what the plan is for painting, but I have a neighbor that does faux finishes and restoration work on old mansions downtown.
I also have a friend that does graffiti murals, and he's done some nice subtle monochromatic watermark-like wall treatments. I think it would be cool to have CHAOS really large on the north wall.
Anyhow, I think we could source some talented folks to help.
It looks like I could assist either the 16th or the 17th.
What about two crews? One on Saturday, one on Sunday? Right now some are saying can do either (like me, Jim C, Matt, Ken) but there is also a group that can only do the 17th. With a plan, we could knock out stuff on Saturday that would be prep for Sunday's crew.
Should probably also set those as no brew days on the calendar if we are kicking shit up in the air.
I've noticed this forum keeps alerting that it has updated posts, but the last post I can see is from forgette about pumping Bill full of Malort? Anyone else having this issue? Am I missing posts?
Ahh, yes, saw my post disappeared... and then I saw in tiny number that forums can go to more pages. Ok. Got it. Boy have I missed a lot. Damn.
I'll be able to be there both days
The emperor is not as forgiving as i am
I'm free that weekend too. I don't know how to do much, but I make a halfway decent gopher.
And you're right, we don't want people brewing those days. I just blocked off reservations from 9am Saturday Jan 16 until 6pm on Sunday, just to be on the safe side. Anyone with admin rights can (probably?) remove that block if that weekend falls through.
Stephen - FYI - no graffitti, it wont fly with Chip.
If it was the CHAOS logo or more grapihic that would be nice. Thats not graffitti
James & Steven - No Graphics and/or Graffiti on the wall. The matter is essentially non-negotiable with our landlord.
Waht about painting a swarm of ants on the front wall?
> What about two crews? One on Saturday, one on Sunday?
That could work, but I think we need a fearless leader designated for the 16th still. The two people so far that have raised their hand as experienced carpenters/handymen/drywallers are @JamesLewis and @ChuckMac, and @JamesLewis has said he's probably out for the 16th.
Who will be our Crew Chief for each day? Let's get that nailed down first.
http://tinfoilhatbrewery.com/
I can be there on the 17th.
I can be at both build days
I can't commit to showing up yet, but I'll throw on a keg for you guys.
I would suggest drinking *after* the drywalling and painting. Something about straight lines and attention to detail . . .
www.singingboysbrewing.com
I agree. Let's save the boozing till the day is done.
I agree. Let's save the boozing till the day is done.
So, I took the time to catch up on this, sorry for the delay. I can help on the 16th. I have drywall experiance and needed tools. I'll bring them. Sorry I haven't been more active. Can I still suggest reviewing the below things for addition to the spread sheet that has been created?
-Molding for the front door and possibly the window.
-Ripping out the strange metal rail on the wall over the bathroom. (if not structural)
-Cleaning out the bathroom, or at least hanging a curtain to hide all of the junk.
-build better shelving in the storage closet. That'd be pretty easy and have huge gains (like moving stuff in bathroom).
-Buy a folding table and chairs for it. Or two so we can seat 10 for meetings, classes, or game nights.
-Curtains for the entry between the Keezer area and the rest of the brew house. I think it would really help to seperate the nice space we are looking to create from the "work space". Even just hanging open I think it would really warm up the bar area.
Also, on a side note, I talked to one of the alchemists about fixing up our Keezer. The lid sits crooked and the wood is not in the best shape. I can replace the wood, level, and create a sealant lip for the lid in a day. Should cost under 100$. If there is a desire for this I can open a thread about how the club wants that to look. I have built a keezer before, so I feel pretty confident about this.
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