I was thinking for Cerveza De Mayo about brewing single hop Pale Ale with Mosiac to really show all facets of that hop, early additions, late additions, all sorts of additions, kind of an educational thing for our own better understanding, and as kind of a cool thing for newer beer drinkers/non-beer nerds to experience. Then I was thinking how cool it would be to have a few folks brew the same recipe with the same hop schedule for different hops, maybe Mosaic, Nelson, Galaxy, and a few more. Maybe have them all at the same station so people could try them all then discuss. Anyone interested? Any ideas to improve it?
Tue, Mar 4, 2014 - 11:11pm
#1
Cerveza De Mayo Hop Expo?
That's a great idea, I'll brew for it.
"Give a man a beer, and he will waste an hour. Teach a man to brew, and he will waste a lifetime!" Bill Owen
Awesome idea Joe! We're ramping up the educational aspects of the club and this would be a fun way to teach people about hops. I'll add a section to the beer sign-up sheet to organize this a bit.
I'll brew for it.
The emperor is not as forgiving as i am
I'd be up for taking on a hop and doing this as well.
I setup up a brew day on Saturday 03/22. Can we get the recipe comfirmed by then? I'll use Galaxy
The emperor is not as forgiving as i am
Awesome! I'm not much of an IPA drinker so I don't have a good recipe for one, so I'm open to suggestions. Probably a simple grain bill, nothing too flashy so it highlights the hops, but still a good beer. Also, I'm thinking a 60 min addition, 30 min, 5 min, and maybe flameout. Should we dry hop too? Given that these varities all have different alpha acids should we shoot for the same IBU for all these beers or should we all use the same amount of ounces? Because all having the same IBU's will allow for easy comparison, but the same amount of ounces will really showcase the differences in strength of each hop in the High AA hops.
Also, we could call it something like "Hop School" and have a small bowl of each hop on the table so people can see and smell each one raw and in the beer.
Thoughts?
Obviously you guys would sub the hops for whatever you are using.
The emperor is not as forgiving as i am
This looks good to me. The same yeast should be used, as well. 1056?
This looks good to me. The same yeast should be used, as well. 1056?
Looks good to me. Now you've set a baseline, we just need to come to a consensus on whether to match ounces or IBU's.
I've input my entry in the Cerveza de Mayo Beer List as:
Hop School: Mosaic
If everyone is cool with that name we can just follow format, so Canuck will be
Hop School: Galaxy
and so forth. This is fantastic.
I'm hoping someone picks up Nelson, if no one does, I might brew it as well if I have the time, because the descriptions of that hop are very intriguing.
Yes I used 1056 yeast.
The emperor is not as forgiving as i am
1056 it is
Updated Cerveza de Mayo Beer List as Hop School: galaxy. Will be brewed on the 22nd
I think we should use the same amount of hops at the same times.
The emperor is not as forgiving as i am
Since we're comparing the differences in hops, I don't think we need the IBUs to match. The different levels of bitterness is one of the main differences with the various hop varieties.
Sounds good to me.
I have some thoughts on this. I think we should match IBUs. I say we shoot for around 60. I think we should be adding much more at flameout as well to really get the aroma and flavor in there. I also think we should dry hop with at least 2 ozs. I also think we need to cut that crystal way down or out entirely. I like my IPA's dry, especially if we want to showcase a single hop.
I would limit the 60 and 30 minute additions to just get you to around 50-60 IBU's and then load up at 15 min and even more so at flameout. Also mash at 148-50.
If we increase the flameout and then dry hop with 2 oz, should we get rid of the 5 minute addition?
I agree with Kyle, we should match the IBUs. and combine the 5 min hop addition with the flameout.
"Give a man a beer, and he will waste an hour. Teach a man to brew, and he will waste a lifetime!" Bill Owen
Also I take Citra
"Give a man a beer, and he will waste an hour. Teach a man to brew, and he will waste a lifetime!" Bill Owen
American Ale (Wyeast Labs #1056) [124.21 ml]
Mash at 148 for 75mins?
2oz of Galaxy in secondary for 5 days?
IBUs 57.1
The emperor is not as forgiving as i am
We mine as well combine the 30 minute at the 60 minute and you could use less to get same IBU's. Not really gonna get any flavor in a 30 minute additon anyways. Also I would suggest using 20L crystal instead of 40L. Don't really want much crystal sweetness. Also any objections to bumping up the flameout from 1.5 oz to 2 or even 3? Again I think we really want the hop flavor to shine through. I like the mash temp and time. What is the OG its predicting Bill?
I will sign up for Nelson as long as I can track it down.
I wouldn't dry hop if you are trying to demonstrate the differences in the hops....too many veriables and too many people brewing. Keep It Simple.
You won't get much Carmel sweetness from the C-40...its really more for color and head retention.
Why wouldn't you dry hop? How is dry hopping complicating things? Everyone does it for same number of days. There is going to be variables and differences in the batches regardless, but it will still give our guests a good idea of what different hops do.
I just think more often than not dry hopped beers are vegetal.
As long as we don't dryhop for more than 5 days and then either bottle or keg on the 5th day we should be fine.
"Give a man a beer, and he will waste an hour. Teach a man to brew, and he will waste a lifetime!" Bill Owen
Measured OG predicted at 1.046
The emperor is not as forgiving as i am
This seems like a pretty good place to get some odd/exotic varieties. There are so many I've never even heard of, Green Bullet, Waktu, Topaz, all sorts of crazy hops. http://www.yakimavalleyhops.com/default.asp
OK, so it looks like this is where we're at right now with the general consensus please correct me if I'm wrong:
12lbs U.S. 2-row
.5 lbs Crystal 40L
Mash @ 148 for 75 min
Wyeast 1056
60 min hop addition to equal approximately 60 IBU
3 oz. Hops at flameout
2 oz. Dry hop in the secondary for exactly 5 days.
Also the roster as it stands currently:
Joe: Mosaic
Pete: Citra
Bill: Galaxy
Kyle: Nelson Sauvin
Jeff: ?
That's a pretty good roster of hops to be sampling, kinda popular yet unique hops, I think people will definitely be interested. We might be able to pull in some more beer nerds than normal from other clubs around town to attend our "hop school" at the Cerveza De Mayo.
Also, that grain bill gave me an OG of 1.059 in beersmith, should I adjust my grain bill so it's 1.046. or just let it ride?
If it works out, it could be a running theme. We could do an entirely different set of hops for the Summer event, maybe have Malt School, and vary the malts while yeast and hops remain constant, Yeast school where yeast is the variable... I think the concept has a lot of potential, and boosts our educational aspect.
I like that idea.
So I adjusted my 60min hop addition to 1.40oz and I am now getting 60.3 IBUs
The emperor is not as forgiving as i am
Just adjust your hop addition in whatever software you use so that the alpha acid of your hop gives you 60IBU. It will be different for everyone.
If you could all brew at the same time you could split the mash runnings so everyone gets a bit of all mashed for consistency. Or maybe the 25 g system could be test driven for this, just use it for mashing and split the boils to different burners. Fun idea. I would consider using like .5oz at 15min, 10min and 5min to get that full flavor range. I think you would be missing out without that
I just did a single hop, single malt brew using Vienna malt and Pacific jade hops. Its not ready yet but if it turns out good maybe I can brew another batch for Cinco de Cerveza
Kevin Saberniak
I like getting the 25 gallon system involved in this. It would be an awesome opportunity to show off our new toy to potential new members.
I agree with James about the late hop additions. What does everyone else think?
Kevin, if you want to do a batch with Pacific jade, you'll need to use the same grain bill as the other participants.
We really wouldn't be able to brew with the new system other than just the mash tun because we are all using different hops in the boil.
"Give a man a beer, and he will waste an hour. Teach a man to brew, and he will waste a lifetime!" Bill Owen
I really don't think you get any additional flavor from hopping in the last 15, 10 or 5 minutes as opposed to only doing a flameout or better yet whirlpool/hopstand additon. Only thing I think you gain is additional IBU's. I suppose everyone could do their own hop schedule as long as we aim for the same total IBU. Could be a fun variable to throw in the mix and see which hops shines thru with which hopping regiment.
Also do we have a tentative final date for when both large systems will be set up and a possible training day scheduled?
What about ~60 IBU bittering, and then 5oz split between 15/10/5/knockout/dryhop as the brewer prefers?
Only reason to do that would be if we were intested in seeing the extra bittering that adding more at say 15 than all at flameout. There would be considerably more bitterness if someone did a 15 and 10 minute compared to doing all at flameout.
I disagree that 15/10 minute additions don't add any hop flavor versus knockout additions. They also add only a relatively small amount of bitterness compared to a 60 or 30 min addition. I would guess that there is a pretty small difference between a 5 minute addition and a knockout addition, particularly if you whirlpool/hopstand for ~10 minutes.
Anyway; I guess if the idea is to showcase the differences between the hops, you should do a set amount of bittering hops and then a fixed amount of late addition/dry hops, and everyone should do them at the same times.
Edit: this is a really cool idea guys; I'm very interested to see how the beers come out.
I am going to disagree with the only ibus too.
That being said i have done very successful pale ales only doing 30 min buttering hops and 2-3oz after the 120 degree mark on a whirlpool cooling addition.
I'm a fan of late hop addition, I find that it adds great aroma and a smooth bitterness to it. I propose that we do as follows
1 oz. for 60 min.
enough of your hop at 10 min. to get IBUs to 60
1 oz. at Flameout
2 oz. dry hop in secondary for exactly 5 days
Does that sound good? I understand some folks have differing opinions on late additions, I ask those opposed to late additions to perhaps indulge those of us who favor them and agree to do it this once in the name of science. I think this schedule kinda splits the difference. Is this a schedule we can all live with, I think it should pull about everything you can get out of a hop out. Also, I'm real excited to see all the interest in it, and to drink the results.
When calculating late hope additions, ibus is not a useful metric. You need to do substitutions by mass. 1oZ for 1oZ. The important flavors are oil derived and quantity is more consistent with mass than alpha acids. There are many episodes of brew strong that describe this method as well as goes an strong's book
I have no suggestions on the hop scheduale, IBUs, or grain bill. But I would love to take on a hop and brew a batch for this great idea. Let me know if we're all doing it on a certain day (the 22nd?) or if we should just brew on our own. I'd like to be part of a big brew day, if possible. Also, I'll use Nelson if no one else has called it yet!
John
Ya I already called Nelson
@johngammal. You're more than welcome to join, if you could please, just choose a unique hop, something interesting, there's a roster buried in the thread with the list as of now. Keep an eye on the thread for the final hopping schedule, the grain bill has been set.
Other Brewers: we have the yeast and grain bill set, we need to agree on a hop schedule soon!
I started a poll, please let your opinion be known so we can move forward with this.
As it is widely known, I'm not a big fan of hops, but I love the fuck out of this idea. Nice work people, this is going to be fun to promote.
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