it definitely works. we tested it before we pulled it off. its a dino, for sure, but just thinking to save the $. but it we have money in the coffers, why not.
I remember pulling the motor off the saw with you...I don't recall
plugging it in to see if it was working. In fact, I remember it was
easy to disassemble because the wiring and switch had already been
taken apart.
I remember it running before it was moved out side...
But regardless...I have no idea if that is even the right type of
motor for this application, RPM and size wise.
The gearbox is here. Ill drop it off when I get a chance.
Anyone want to sit down one night and figure out how to put together the mechanical part of this? I realistically dont have time until after christmas.
i vaguely remember plugging it in before we took it apart to make sure it was worth the hassel. maybe not. we should probably chuck it and not store the junk.
I just used the newly-motorized mill this weekend. It's awesome. Dump <= 20lbs of grain in the hopper and go do other stuff while the mill goes to town. I didn't time it, but think it took about 5-6 minutes to get through a 19 lb. grain bill for a 10 gallon batch I did.
Big ups to everyone involved: James for purchasing the motor and gear-reducer; David for picking up the motor (and the soon-to-be-operational Enclosure of Justice); Lucas for getting the correct coupler; Lucas and Evan for getting the motor wired up and mounted to the milling cabinet; and anybody else who worked on this that I'm forgetting. Thanks a ton!
So based on some testing this Sunday, we're going to need a new motor. During the last meeting we pulled the motor off the mount in the mill and a ton of metal shavings came out. I also tried to tinker with it unsuccessfully this past weekend. Anyone have a line on a decent used motor? Here's a quote from James' post a while back on what we got last time:
OK, from a lot of research it looks like what we need for a motor fulfills these requiremenst
HP - .75-1.5
RPM - 1700-1800
voltage - 110 or 115
Frame - 56C (to be compatable with the gear reducers I have seen which seem to be most compatable with is frame type)
Price - Under $75 is great. I am looking into a few in the $140 range right now.
So, does anyone have any good ideas on getting the reducing gear off the motor? If so that would save us some $$. Otherwise I've been looking at something similar to what we got last time: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0000DD15I/. This one is a completely enclosed motor that is designed to replace existing motors on woodworking equipment so we shouldn't have any issues with grain dust getting into it. Here's the specs:
It'll fit our existing gear if we can get it off the old one and can be wired directly into where it is. Anyone have any thoughts? I could have this here for this weekend and could fix the mill while I'm brewing.
Also, our existing reducing gear is a 5:1 reduction, which would put us at 345 RPM, which may be a little high given the old discussion. Its still a 56C connection on the motor I suggested so it would work just fine if we can get it off as long as that RPM is ok. I'm not an expert here, so please let me know about the grain. If we wanted a new reducing gear, the guy we got stuff from out in the burbs has another one that's a 10:1. Its $90, which is more than we paid for the old one, but still may work. Here's the link to the site for those that don't want to pick through the entire old thread: http://www.youngssurplus.com
20199
New Dodge Tigear 10:1 Gear Reducer
New Dodge Tigear 10:1 Gear Reducer ID# MR96101FKD SIZE RATIO # 0133B010M056K1 - .80 Max HP - Output Torque 234 in/lbs - Comes with # 79140-15-B Base - 5/8" Output Shaft - Weighs 20#
I am for the motor, not the reducer. The mill speed I think will be fine.
I really thin there needed to be a panel between the mill and the reducer/motor. The motor might have dust protection, but the reducer doe not. I dont think you want to be taking this thing apart again next year.
Sorry for all the posts here this morning, but I'm cataloging my thinking as I do some research. So I think that the prior motor I posted is the wrong option. Itsa a NEMA 56 fitting, but we need a NEMA 56C fitting so that it'll take our reducing gear. We also want a Totally Enclosed Fan Cooled (TEFC) motor given where its going. That being said, here's probably a better and cheaper option on Ebay:
Sadly, it seems like most of the cheap motors are running at 1725 RPM, so for future proofing ours it may be a good idea to go ahead and get a new reducing gear that's more like 10:1 or 8:1. That way we'll have about 170 - 210 RPM on the gears.
I keep finding ones that are the right gearing, are 56C, and they are at a 90 degree angle, but the shaft goes to the left, and to use our current setup we need one that goes to the right. Here's an example of one that would work, but its $150 versus the ones that face left are more like $100:
So the issue with flipping the reducing gear is the height of the mill itself. It we flipped it over it owuld still work (we'd have to figure out how to mount it) but it would be significantly higher than the current setup and I believe we'd have to modify it to fit the new height.
You're correct, the 56 and 56C are only different in that C includes a place on both sides to allow the two to bolt together instead of needing some form of coupler. Its a good point that we could probably do the non C, we'd just need to get another coupler and those are pretty cheap.
I dont think there is going to be any additional husk tearing at 350 rpm. And at only 10-20lbs of grain a batch, I dont think we have to worry about the mill heating up. The literature on mill speed is quite mixed, I dont feel it is solid enough to buy a new reducer.
James - Just saw your comment from this morning. Are the reducers also in a sealed chamber for the gears and motors? I thought they were for some reason but I most certainly don't know.
Yes it would be, essentially the motor and reducer become one part, botleted together and bolted down to the box. The more fixed this part is the better. And if we could put a wall between the motor/reducer assmebly and the mill that would be best. We would drill a hole through this wall for the drive shaft out of the reducer that would connect with your coupling to the mill.
So I'm going to go ahead and order the motor I showed on ebay above this evening. If anyone has any problems, please let me know. I'll do my best to get the reducing gear off the current motor.
Do we have any car guys in the club that might have one of these? I do not know how the reducer is fastend to the motor, but one of these may be just the ticket to get it off.
Motor has been purchased and will be here in a week or two. I wasn't able to get the gear off, I'll be coming by with something a bit heavier this time around...
So today burbanski and I managed to get the reducing gear off of the grain mill and found out some bad news. The problem with the whole thing was that the reducing gear had siezed up. It looks like at some point the drain plug for the oil pan had fallen out (based on the lack of mess, I'm wondering if it was before we got it). Although the motor still ran, there were a ton of odd noises and metal shavings flying out of it, so I'm guessing its also got a short life.
Thankfully, the new motor came in today, so we have that. Now we just need to get a reducing gear, I'm going to start a search on ebay this afternoon and see what I can find.
Ok, here's an option for a new one if we want. Its a 10:1 reduction, which would put us at about the same RPM as before with the new motor (1750 -> 175). Its 56C, but it doesn't come with a shaft, which would make it $20 more expensive, but would make it easier to deal with not having to reduce the shaft.
This was just one of the first things that popped up on a quick ebay search. If anyone else has the time to look, that would be awesome. Remember, all we need is something that is a 56C fitting, works at a right angle, and the output shaft needs to face to the right if viewed from the top.
it definitely works. we tested it before we pulled it off. its a dino, for sure, but just thinking to save the $. but it we have money in the coffers, why not.
...igz...
I remember pulling the motor off the saw with you...I don't recall
plugging it in to see if it was working. In fact, I remember it was
easy to disassemble because the wiring and switch had already been
taken apart.
I remember it running before it was moved out side...
But regardless...I have no idea if that is even the right type of
motor for this application, RPM and size wise.
The gearbox is here. Ill drop it off when I get a chance.
Anyone want to sit down one night and figure out how to put together the mechanical part of this? I realistically dont have time until after christmas.
I can try and do it one night next week if no one else has time before that.
Oh... my... god. Why haven't we done this? http://thechive.com/2013/09/17/guys-rig-up-buddies-plumbing-with-beer-wh...
i vaguely remember plugging it in before we took it apart to make sure it was worth the hassel. maybe not. we should probably chuck it and not store the junk.
...igz...
The reducer is in the brewhouse too. In a box next to the motor. That motor is so heavy, its crazy.
Couplings have been purchased, they just shipped and will be here soon.
Oh... my... god. Why haven't we done this? http://thechive.com/2013/09/17/guys-rig-up-buddies-plumbing-with-beer-wh...
Do we need any other parts?
I just used the newly-motorized mill this weekend. It's awesome. Dump <= 20lbs of grain in the hopper and go do other stuff while the mill goes to town. I didn't time it, but think it took about 5-6 minutes to get through a 19 lb. grain bill for a 10 gallon batch I did.
Big ups to everyone involved: James for purchasing the motor and gear-reducer; David for picking up the motor (and the soon-to-be-operational Enclosure of Justice); Lucas for getting the correct coupler; Lucas and Evan for getting the motor wired up and mounted to the milling cabinet; and anybody else who worked on this that I'm forgetting. Thanks a ton!
-Adam
So based on some testing this Sunday, we're going to need a new motor. During the last meeting we pulled the motor off the mount in the mill and a ton of metal shavings came out. I also tried to tinker with it unsuccessfully this past weekend. Anyone have a line on a decent used motor? Here's a quote from James' post a while back on what we got last time:
OK, from a lot of research it looks like what we need for a motor fulfills these requiremenst
Oh... my... god. Why haven't we done this? http://thechive.com/2013/09/17/guys-rig-up-buddies-plumbing-with-beer-wh...
So, does anyone have any good ideas on getting the reducing gear off the motor? If so that would save us some $$. Otherwise I've been looking at something similar to what we got last time: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0000DD15I/. This one is a completely enclosed motor that is designed to replace existing motors on woodworking equipment so we shouldn't have any issues with grain dust getting into it. Here's the specs:
It'll fit our existing gear if we can get it off the old one and can be wired directly into where it is. Anyone have any thoughts? I could have this here for this weekend and could fix the mill while I'm brewing.
Oh... my... god. Why haven't we done this? http://thechive.com/2013/09/17/guys-rig-up-buddies-plumbing-with-beer-wh...
Also, our existing reducing gear is a 5:1 reduction, which would put us at 345 RPM, which may be a little high given the old discussion. Its still a 56C connection on the motor I suggested so it would work just fine if we can get it off as long as that RPM is ok. I'm not an expert here, so please let me know about the grain. If we wanted a new reducing gear, the guy we got stuff from out in the burbs has another one that's a 10:1. Its $90, which is more than we paid for the old one, but still may work. Here's the link to the site for those that don't want to pick through the entire old thread: http://www.youngssurplus.com
Oh... my... god. Why haven't we done this? http://thechive.com/2013/09/17/guys-rig-up-buddies-plumbing-with-beer-wh...
I am for the motor, not the reducer. The mill speed I think will be fine.
I really thin there needed to be a panel between the mill and the reducer/motor. The motor might have dust protection, but the reducer doe not. I dont think you want to be taking this thing apart again next year.
Sorry for all the posts here this morning, but I'm cataloging my thinking as I do some research. So I think that the prior motor I posted is the wrong option. Itsa a NEMA 56 fitting, but we need a NEMA 56C fitting so that it'll take our reducing gear. We also want a Totally Enclosed Fan Cooled (TEFC) motor given where its going. That being said, here's probably a better and cheaper option on Ebay:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/AC-MOTOR-3-4HP-1725RPM-1PH-115V-208-230V-56C-TEFC-WITH-BASE-/300656387962?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item460084677a
Sadly, it seems like most of the cheap motors are running at 1725 RPM, so for future proofing ours it may be a good idea to go ahead and get a new reducing gear that's more like 10:1 or 8:1. That way we'll have about 170 - 210 RPM on the gears.
I keep finding ones that are the right gearing, are 56C, and they are at a 90 degree angle, but the shaft goes to the left, and to use our current setup we need one that goes to the right. Here's an example of one that would work, but its $150 versus the ones that face left are more like $100:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/GROVE-GEAR-REDUCER-GEAR-BOX-10-1-FLEXALINE-GEARBOX-10-1-RATIO-56C-/171054708194?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item27d3a7b5e2
This is going to be my last post, I promise.
Oh... my... god. Why haven't we done this? http://thechive.com/2013/09/17/guys-rig-up-buddies-plumbing-with-beer-wh...
I may be completely wrong here, but can't you just mount a right-facing gearbox upside down to get the shaft to face left?
Also, I believe 56 and 56C are equivalent as far as mounting a gearbox is concerned (diameter of motor housing and shaft):
http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/nema-electrical-motor-frame-dimensions...
So the issue with flipping the reducing gear is the height of the mill itself. It we flipped it over it owuld still work (we'd have to figure out how to mount it) but it would be significantly higher than the current setup and I believe we'd have to modify it to fit the new height.
You're correct, the 56 and 56C are only different in that C includes a place on both sides to allow the two to bolt together instead of needing some form of coupler. Its a good point that we could probably do the non C, we'd just need to get another coupler and those are pretty cheap.
Oh... my... god. Why haven't we done this? http://thechive.com/2013/09/17/guys-rig-up-buddies-plumbing-with-beer-wh...
I dont think there is going to be any additional husk tearing at 350 rpm. And at only 10-20lbs of grain a batch, I dont think we have to worry about the mill heating up. The literature on mill speed is quite mixed, I dont feel it is solid enough to buy a new reducer.
James - Just saw your comment from this morning. Are the reducers also in a sealed chamber for the gears and motors? I thought they were for some reason but I most certainly don't know.
Oh... my... god. Why haven't we done this? http://thechive.com/2013/09/17/guys-rig-up-buddies-plumbing-with-beer-wh...
Yes it would be, essentially the motor and reducer become one part, botleted together and bolted down to the box. The more fixed this part is the better. And if we could put a wall between the motor/reducer assmebly and the mill that would be best. We would drill a hole through this wall for the drive shaft out of the reducer that would connect with your coupling to the mill.
So I'm going to go ahead and order the motor I showed on ebay above this evening. If anyone has any problems, please let me know. I'll do my best to get the reducing gear off the current motor.
Oh... my... god. Why haven't we done this? http://thechive.com/2013/09/17/guys-rig-up-buddies-plumbing-with-beer-wh...
http://www.autozone.com/autozone/accessories/OEM-Jaw-puller/_/N-26b8?itemIdentifier=141513_0_0_
Do we have any car guys in the club that might have one of these? I do not know how the reducer is fastend to the motor, but one of these may be just the ticket to get it off.
Motor has been purchased and will be here in a week or two. I wasn't able to get the gear off, I'll be coming by with something a bit heavier this time around...
Oh... my... god. Why haven't we done this? http://thechive.com/2013/09/17/guys-rig-up-buddies-plumbing-with-beer-wh...
So today burbanski and I managed to get the reducing gear off of the grain mill and found out some bad news. The problem with the whole thing was that the reducing gear had siezed up. It looks like at some point the drain plug for the oil pan had fallen out (based on the lack of mess, I'm wondering if it was before we got it). Although the motor still ran, there were a ton of odd noises and metal shavings flying out of it, so I'm guessing its also got a short life.
Thankfully, the new motor came in today, so we have that. Now we just need to get a reducing gear, I'm going to start a search on ebay this afternoon and see what I can find.
Oh... my... god. Why haven't we done this? http://thechive.com/2013/09/17/guys-rig-up-buddies-plumbing-with-beer-wh...
Ok, here's an option for a new one if we want. Its a 10:1 reduction, which would put us at about the same RPM as before with the new motor (1750 -> 175). Its 56C, but it doesn't come with a shaft, which would make it $20 more expensive, but would make it easier to deal with not having to reduce the shaft.
Gearbox: http://www.ebay.com/itm/NMRV040-Worm-Gear-10-1-56C-Speed-Reducer-/200934...
Shaft: http://www.ebay.com/itm/NMRV040-Worm-Gear-Speed-Reducer-3-4-Keyed-Single...
This was just one of the first things that popped up on a quick ebay search. If anyone else has the time to look, that would be awesome. Remember, all we need is something that is a 56C fitting, works at a right angle, and the output shaft needs to face to the right if viewed from the top.
Let me know your thoughts, thanks!
Oh... my... god. Why haven't we done this? http://thechive.com/2013/09/17/guys-rig-up-buddies-plumbing-with-beer-wh...
I would say buy what you think is appropriate.
Lucas, I think easier is worth an extra $20. If that works. lets roll with it.
Ordered the parts noted above.
Oh... my... god. Why haven't we done this? http://thechive.com/2013/09/17/guys-rig-up-buddies-plumbing-with-beer-wh...
Motor has been fixed. See formal brewhouse project here for more info: http://www.chaosbrewclub.net/project/project-grain-mill-motor
Oh... my... god. Why haven't we done this? http://thechive.com/2013/09/17/guys-rig-up-buddies-plumbing-with-beer-wh...
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